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thecooler

What's the point? of AI

by
Seriously here listen me up, what is the point of been an "AI Artist" ? (and a bit of a rant too)

Your "Art" can't be monetized!, can't be sold! it cant be copywrited and it can't be even claim as some thing you did! so what is the point of doing it? worst of all posting it! Just to be popular? just for the likes and stars? just to feel like an artist that has been doing this for year and got a following for its creativity and skills?.  

In a commercial level it has its pros, why would any company commission me and pay me $10 for my time and skills or even a cheap artist like myself doing what I can Barely do for $5 to do a simple design character when an AI for $3 a month can generate you 5000 images! right? for what I charge for a sketch can be used to get those many images on full HD Hipper realistic style from what ever artist you want it to look like! with out giving a cent to any artist work that was feed into that AI to "learn" from.

so what is the point? your "Art" is valueless! its worth nothing monetarily and Inspirationally as well it can be so easily replicated by any one that can type stuff on labels. and put numbers on dials over and over and over but getting me to do some thing for the sheer enjoyment of doing it for some one else that appreciates my work and time that would pay me for it that is Priceless not cause I don't give it, it was payed for but for the emotion it must give that gives, (it does not have to be always happy).

The only value AI has to me is that thanks to it I have come to appreciate more the Real Artists and what I do as an artist even if its not perfect even if its my crappy own style of drawing like caricatures of furries NSF or NSFW stuff, cause you can promp all you like generate as many you need but the AI will never do one style only unless you tell it to and then again its not your own it never was!.

So what is the point on doing posting AI generated Images? to fuel on the hate it gives you? to troll on the boomers and baby boomers that are against it?

The Following are my responses to some arguments that I had hear around.
(before they delete them or block me before I could respond for "been rude" or been "hateful" or hrting theiw feweens (zootopia ref))

1) I just use it for references! cause some things are so hard to find!

Then why post the AI generated one? post the one you created based on the Reference!
besides you want me to believe that the AI was able to get references and mix ones with others to do its thing but you can't? If some one aske me to do some thing that does not exist then I would look for what does exist and then sketch some thing using that. if you go to my SWF Commissions from last year all the R34 things there where made using ref images that I got from Google! besides that is the idea no? when you can't find some thing is cause no one has done it before! YOU are going to create the first! but now thanks to you that credit was done by no one!. you made it literally took away your moment of shine!

We all had had our firsts, go on and search for "Bandit_heeler, spanking, Bluey_heeler" you would provably find it on my NSFW post of last year 2023 or on e621 and its provably the first there was! with those exact tags! the oldest even. I then created some thing new! for realsies!. even if it was some one else idea. I created it!. cause that what a real artist does It creates!.

I even convince the commissioner to make blue blush not cry in pain and the expressions changed on bandit to playful not Mad Angry cause I did respect the Original Characters and appreciate the animators work (I LOVE BLUEY!) and I did not thought Bandit could do that to Bluey unless it was some thing she enjoyed as we seen him going to some extremes to just make her daughters happy! the original idea was to much away from the character and we both and hopefully the rest of you liked how it end up.

2) Its not lazy, It does not do it all, I got to tell it what to do.

But still does the scenarios, the characters, the poses, the lines, the colors, the shading, the lighting, the the backgrounds etc, can you tell me what exactly of the Drawing itself YOU did? having an idea on what you want it to do does not make you an artist, an artist takes that idea and brings it into reality, it is not really a drawing tool if it does not really allow you to do and change choices on every step of the way, you could generate many until you get what you want but still its not some thing you choose to do its just happens that the AI generated the most similar thing you requested.

3) I am not stealing art! the AI makes it original! by defragmenting the artist real works I feed to it and recomposing it to a new thing I even pay for those images I fed it so the artist did got its pay.

maybe you aren't but you are supporting those who do, even if you did pay for it you should be paying for it to be used to generate the rest of images you did from it its like taking a samples from a song and doing 50 songs after if you do not have permission to use it that way, you are committing plagiarism and its worst if you are using a free to use AI. cause you are not feeding it to literally every one else. do you see the problem here? and sorry but that description of what the AI is doing its just a fancy way to say its creating a diffused water down collage!.

4) It learns diffidently.

If it "learn" why does it keep making the same mistakes over and over and when it finally makes the eyes right for example the legs or arms fingers etc are back into been all crooked and shait? if it really learn then there would not be any way by now to difference an AI image form an Artist Image. Then why do you got to cut the lower parts of the image where the hands or feet obviously where before you post it?

I am not a religious person I would consider myself an atheist but I do believe in the human spirit, as some thing that represents the life with in, art has always been threw out the cultures and times an spiritual activity, a spiritual profession, a spiritual hobby and that should never be replaced with AI, that's why in my opinion there is always some thing missing in AI stuff, it lacks spirit it lacks purpose or reason of becoming. its not even a monetary transaction with another person to do draw for you, its not even a service! its just some thing some requested a computer to do. its literally souless.

5) I am not using it to make money! but I will take commissions so you can tell me what do you want me to tell the AI to do for you!.

like seriously WTFF is wrong with that people!!!?? and worst to what's going on with the people that did commission them?? double the WWTTFF! makes me wanna scream!

6) your just saying that cause your a Hater! the AI is the future of Art

I guess 5 years of collage university studies on graphic design, history of art 1, 2 and 3, Art appreciation 1 and 2, human anatomy 1 and 2, pencil drawing, water color, psychology of color, philosophy of art, Context of the art and master Piece, photography 1 and 2, angles and building design, Art technics and movement, Technical Drawing, composition and artistic process of creation, creativity and originality 1 and 2, copyright law, international copy right laws, pastels 1 and 2, acrylics, Oleo paint 1 and 2, and the price of art, courses are useless now I guess? when you can program oh sorry "train" a bot to do things again sorry "learn" and create stuff.

Human life knowledge learn skills and time are worthless for you, thank you for clarifying that.
wonder what would you do when the AI would no longer even need you to do stuff? then what? what will you "create"? If you do not value what another person does then what makes you thing yours is worth it to?

Its actually sad to say I get more reasonable conversations with an AI than with people some times that suppose to be real! I really hope this AI trend dies out as quick as it came to be! we did it with NFT's why can't we with AI?

To all real artist out still creating and struggling to get seen under the piles and piles of AI generated stuff this self proclaim "artists" or as some has refer to them selves as "Directors" generate that has saturated the system, I SALUTE YOU! I hope one day we can look back and laugh at it but for now hold on there! keep creating but don't tag it to much so AI can't find it, or in my case I did a poll with so many images and so many tags AI would not know what the fuck to do with it! Peace to you all and may the force be with you!.

Conclusion:
Have to ask again, What's the Point? of "AI Art"
The point was not wanting to pay people for their skills, knowledge, time and work but charge you to use their software to generate images in on your "own style" that was not yours, with out paying no one for it! that was the point all Making Money! and sale it to people that can't nor want to take the time to learn how to draw, nothing else nothing more, and you are supporting that if you support and use AI image generators.

Keep it up and keep it kool

Update:

I had seen your points and got more to say now... (gathering all reply's not just one's)
All said comes to the ground by making and posting of this "works" in stupid amounts with out any human edition and thousands of others doing the same (cause they "can't draw" nor have the time do so so?) how? well...

Even if you did not had the money to commission I can understand that, not all people can get those commodities, one been myself the artist producing commission who can't actually commission others, I know what that is like, that would not be a problem as you say as some one else would? and would they really? your expecting others to do what you can't but the real damage you are creating is posting this, that is hurting artists is that you are not just NOT commissioning but your posting loads of AI stuff into the algorithm. the visibility for artists is now nul popularizing the "we don't need an artist" idea, when you look for an "Judy Hopps" image in this date in the search 50% or more here or on google are AI generated! and to add salt to the wound they would get it for free? no artist was payed for its work, no artist can compete with free! you want them to lower they prices to starvation! as its happening more in pour countries, no one thinks of the little guy, as long as your getting what you want! as it is my case my commissions are an extra money, I still got to work 2 jobs and that's why I am so behind delivery, (besides other problems like health etc) its not a viable income where I live, and now I got to compete to that? the $5 for a fully colored two characters, shaded, with background image, are crazy to ask for!! how dare I request money for my "crappy toony drawings", right?

Its simply not fair even if I could make incredible things its been burried under piles of AI generated things that when I post my work the AI will take it on your request and generate with it tons more.

Its Literally making artist talent valueless. its making art meaningless its reducing art creativity to 1's and 0's thinking AI can be original and creative (two things its not) and its certainly not appreciating the work, time, effort and skills learn or knowledge of the artists, if the product you get mimics it close enough, and that's just ok for you, its a constant I don't want to wait for things, I don't want quality only quantity issue in this new generations combine with the "why learn it when the computer does it for me" mentality its what's gonna cripple the art fandoms.

I agree that tools can be used for great things but for the big picture in the long run its not looking pretty for artist that won't and can't now compete and now have to leave their passions to go to work on some thing they provably would hate, as I am sadly doing, you can argue that artist will continue to do art regardless of if it makes money from it or not and that is true BUT thanks to the endless posting, its gonna be very lonely if I am the only one watching my own art loosing completely the Expression part of art that actually makes it art, HUMAN, peoples, expression. some thing AI is not.

AI is the result of less and less art education around the world on schools. no one appreciates art and that is why its ok to just tell a computer to do it for us and call it a day "no human interaction required" and if you don't like it why pay an artist to fix it? just keep generating and posting endlessly until you get the closes enough so then you will call that "art".

No put yourself in some one else shoes for ones imagine you are that artist you admired that creative person that inspired you! imagine if YOU could do some thing similar to what the AI does with your own hands using your own talents after years of work and learning, wouldn't you rather do that? wouldn't you like to be free from AI? from not depending on it for refs? for shading, for what you use it for? and wouldn't you like to be praised for it? share it? for getting your Real hard work recognized and appreciated instead of, knowing now you can't do it with out the AI? I can still use a pensil and draw silly cartoon animals. can you?

AI is reducing your capabilities, its reducing your creativity, its limiting it to its parameters, its blocking it from becoming more with out it. the more you use Tech for art the Less you express of YOURELF into your work. this is what we fight for YOUR expression visibility.

Peace to you and may the force be with you.

Update: #2

I use it to imitate the creations of those who sadly left us.?

True we want to see more of the great arts masters from the past that left us great joy with their creations, but this is no way to honor their work, I don't think they would like robots to do imitations of their works but instead other artists who inspired by them are recreating new things! creations of their own skill and love for their passion of art and pay homage with love of their work of those that came before them!, with your own creative expression! not commands given to a robot, you as artist  are the one to create beyond what they left and do a extend it more from there of what it meant for you, not a bootleg not just an imitation.

No art master wants its student nor pupil or fan to become an imitator but to surpass what they achieved to extend beyond for the student to become the master! ones he is no longer there to continue with the creation from inspiration not imitation.  
Viewed: 133 times
Added: 3 months, 3 weeks ago
 
44 Comments on this Journal
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HolidayPup
HolidayPup
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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I couldn't agree more with everything you have said here then I do.
John3031
John3031
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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The one and only use I can think of it being used for is if your trying to picture a set pose that can be hard to find in reference or art style you may want to try. While they are not perfect they kind of give you a ballpark area for the image, however I don't think it should be posted or commissioned like any other artwork, but that's how I see it.

I see coolers point on the reference thing and chances are I am a bit lazy when it comes to searching for like a hour for a particular pose or style, I've used them in the past but never posted any such things I do see it as stealing if your posting it as your own work but I can see how insperation where you still put in the work with your own characters after you tought of the idea before hand to tell it what to make. Might be a grey area still but that's my 2 cents.

As far as if it should be allowed on inkbunny I have to agree I don't think it should myself.
tnstud
tnstud
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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unpopular opinion, i enjoy ai art and appreciate what these "artists" do to get the end results. its really not so easy. don't get me wrong, i would never commission an AI "artist" by any means, becase i agree, their work cannot be monetized, and i would much rather support a real artist to get what I am really looking for for my commission. I fully understand that ai has to pull from details from existing pieces, but none the less, i do appreciate the ai art results of the specific trials and errors and tweaks to create the artistic pieces.
thecooler
thecooler
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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"Por que lo llamarias Arte si no fue creado por un artista?"
.-Efrain Recinos

Translation:
"Why would you call it art if it was not created by an artist?"
.-Efrain Recinos
tnstud
tnstud
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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i am referring to the creations the same way you referred to them, "ai art". and i would still consider it art, as art comes in all forms, not always in a visual way either. art is a very general term.

i may not necessarily consider those who go through the process of generating the art as "artists", but perhaps the ai generator is the artist. or perhaps those that go through the process are the artist, and the ai generator is merely a tool or media they use to create the art.

alternatively, would you then not consider graphic designers as artists? they do not create the drawings and pictures they use to assemble their collaborations or modifications, yet someone who creates a very unique graphic using something such as photoshop i would consider to be artistic making a work of art still. and most of these cases you WOULD commission these people to compile or create graphics or designs for many different types of creations.

I very much understand the stigma against "ai artists", especially those commissioning their creations, but at what point do we draw the line? this begins to become a very blurred line at best.
DavidArdilla
DavidArdilla
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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How do I feel at ai created pics? I've blocked ai as a keyword on IB so I think that says it all.

However I just saw this on Youtube, and I'm pretty impressed- it's a plugin for Krita, but I can see this as a helpful ai tool, and less of a cheat since it takes in user inputs from images created in Krita to assist in an output: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDDJ1k-0hmU
sangaire
sangaire
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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to me, I use AI art due to the fact I don't have any disposable income to get commissions but I only use it on my chars for myself.  the people who share what they have made, I dunno I feel kinda on the fence about it due to the fact it pulls attention away from actual artists.
VarraTheVap
VarraTheVap
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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Edited 3 months, 3 weeks ago by Owner
As someone who has played with the generators a bit: It's definitely fun to do so!
And since it is also fun for a fair number of people to look at it, of course you post it.
furryfluffywolf
furryfluffywolf
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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good reason to use an AI generator is to assist your currently made art, for example, you can use your handmade or computer-drawn art and slap it on AI art to make it better, as for me? I don't mind AI art as it does make good stuff but I use it to assist myself because I am not good at drawing art or making it by hand.
thecooler
thecooler
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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why won't you get better at drawing? I feel like AI is limiting your skills.
Liolynx
Liolynx
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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Ich persönlich habe eher unzufriedene Erfahrung mit ki und ai Generatoren gemacht, bei einigen generierten Bildern sind manchmal ein oder zwei Körperteile zu viel und es führt nicht immer das aus was man eingibt deswegen würde ich immer noch echte Künstler bevorzugen denn bis ki und ai wirklich genau das machen was man eingibt wird es bestimmt noch eine ganze Weile dauern.
thecooler
thecooler
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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Das ist genau der menschliche Faktor, der fehlt, der seelische Faktor, der Kunst zur Kunst macht.
SimonCivet
SimonCivet
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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I don't claim to be an "AI Artist", and I never want to. But, as I am right now trying to create a plushie version of Stitch with pawpads, genitals, and a tailhole, I feel like I should voice my opinion at least somewhat:

I agree.

There is no such thing as an "AI Artist" because A.I. programs cannot and do not create what could in any right be technically called "art". The term "art" is reserved for the artistic expression only truly capable of being created through the emotive expression of humans, something AI will never attain.

So, why am I playing around with this A.I. right now? Well, for that very reason: it's fun to play around with. It's a toy. This A.I. program I'm using right now can actually create NSFW content and is 100% free (unlike NUMEROUS other programs out there), so, yeah, I'm going to take advantage of that and see what fun and interesting things I can create. Other times, I've been playing around with AI that cannot create NSFW content and trying my best to subvert the censors and make create... well, lewd content, and sometimes NSFW content, depending on what we're talking about. The types of video games I enjoy playing are ones that make you think about how you can reach your ultimate goal -- Factorio, Satisfactory, Hydroneer, Volcanoids, Shapez, games like that. Playing with an A.I. is the exact same thing, a game of trying to figure out how best to reach your ultimate goal: a picture of Stitch from Lilo and Stitch as a plushie with balls, a sheath, and showing his really soft, shiny, plump pawpads >w<

Additionally, as you mentioned in your post, I have used A.I. as a reference.
For this picture: https://inkbunny.net/s/3217287
Annnd... these pictures/
https://www.deviantart.com/ulrichschwul/art/Werewolf-Cl...
https://www.deviantart.com/ulrichschwul/art/Werewolf-Nu...

The werewolf one, I've never tried drawing a werewolf before, so I asked an AI to create specific werewolf references and I chose the results that I liked and created my own version based on those ideas. The squirrel one was a bit more direct, because I asked it for a pose reference. I had a particular pose in mind but didn't know how to go about it, so I asked the same AI in as much detail as I could to get the pose I wanted. Once I found one that was close enough, again, I drew my own version based on that pose.

Do I still have those images? The squirrel ones, I believe, yeah. Have I ever posted them anywhere? No! Because why? I gain nothing from posting them anywhere and I don't want people misconstruing that it might be my own art. So, why do I have them saved? In the event a friend or someone else is interested and wants to see what it looks like. I don't mind sharing these generations with friends, so long as they are away that it is AI and don't mind it. In my own Discord server, I have a specific channel for AI-generated content called "ai-fun", and now, after finding this NSFW AI image generator, one called "naughty-ai", because, you have to admit, the more time goes on, the more impressive the content is AI can generate. Sometimes, you just want to share it... but there is definitely a time and a place to share that kind of stuff...

And that brings me to my final point (because I see I've almost reached the character limit, so I'm going to try to wrap up quickly, I am so sorry!). Anywhere where artists post and share their artwork should not accept AI-generated content. It discredits the work of the actual artists on the sight and is just rude to ignore that. There are places where people can, and should, share AI-generated content, (like e6ai.net), but, honestly, the reason I opened InkBunny right now was to find other people's generation prompts and incorporate them if possible. Sharing that information is useful for others wanting to play around with it.
SimonCivet
SimonCivet
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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((ended up actually running out of space... I apologize!))

If InkBunny wants to continue to allow AI-generated content on its website, it needs to restrict it from having the capabilities of being placed on the front page of the site or the "Popular" page in general. This should be reserved for the efforts of actual artists. If you want to see the A.I. content, you will have to specifically search for it.
SimonCivet
SimonCivet
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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Oh, right! I actually forgot! I also used AI for this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crzU4kanzRc

The music is 100% mine, everything about it. But everything about the background is, like, the culmination of 4 or 5 different AI programs.

As Sangaire mentioned, some of us unfortunately aren't in a position where we can readily commission actual artists for high-quality artwork (though I still do whenever I can, just recently got a YCH actually). For this video, I had a VERY SPECIFIC idea of what I wanted to have going on as the background. I'm sure I could have found an artist willing to work with me to see that idea through... just most likely not one willing to work with my budget of, well... $0.00. Oh, wait, excuse me! *actually goes to check my bank accounts* $0.86 between two accounts that I've been riding on for months. One of those accounts only has anything on it because of my music that [was, then no longer was, and now once again is] on streaming services; I cashed that income out for a whopping $38.xx... that's the only income I get.

Imagine my level of elation when I found out that all those 4 or 5 AI programs were free to use, if even for a limited time. It got what I wanted to do done.
thecooler
thecooler
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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Ok but think of this: but the problem is not a paywall or commissions can be afforded by all, its that AI is not respecting the paywall either. and people never really appreciated what it takes to do art, Artists usually need a "paywall" cause they are Obviously not capable on their own to fill the demand for commissions and they would love to be payed for what they want to do rather than what they are hired to do, they are popular for their skills how ever when thousands of AI generated images are been posted and been popular how would the artist get commission and visibility it needs? how would you find them under piles and piles of AI generated images? even ones like me that are cheap hopefully decent for to be commission are now on the bottom of the barrel I have not had any of my work show on the popular section since AI. does not matter how many people fav my work and get my name out there (that I truly apreciate them doing) while people that post this things get 2000 watchers in 1 moth that took me 13 years to get! or are surpassing the popular artists already! and its only popular cause it emulates the popular artists! for free! cause obviously that's what they are feeding the AI with, its just far beyond Unfair. Cause for what you said that was not recognized and it was not earned either.

As I said on my final conclusion too to also confirm what you said on your comment, the point of AI is to not pay!, they want us artist to train it for free so they can have their slave that will do all what those artist can for free, and those who use it and train it they don't see the harm they are doing to every single artist out there each time an AI generated image is posted do to what I said earlier. it would literally kill me to see in 1 or 2 years all furry art been replaced with AI generated cause no one supports any artist at all. and its all junk unispired, dead eye, fusion toes uncany smiled puppies. BUT their so Cute who cares!? right?.
SimonCivet
SimonCivet
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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And with that, that is where the true issue with literally everything in life comes to fruition: It doesn't matter what it is, what matters is how it's used.

First and foremost, I don't think "paywall" is the word you're looking for. A "paywall" is something even if I did have money I would never support. Instituting a paywall on your art means you are RESTRICTING people from even SEEING your art in some form or fashion (or even entirely) unless they pay you money. For what? To get to see your art? Okay, and what do they get? Oh, so you're offering incentives for paying them to see your art. You're bribing them into supporting you with promises of a reward. That is the shadiest business model I've ever seen from independent artists.

As for supporting NORMAL artists who offer commissions and YCHs, yeah, sure, I'd support them, because I know that I'm supporting them and will be getting something in return. Sometimes, when I can, I'll even tip the artist to thank them for their cooperation if I feel my request was difficult. Payments and donations are both ethical means of supporting an artist. But paying just to look at their art? And then, what I never understood from the beginning is why would you want to do that: restrict people form seeing your art unless they pay you? The only people you would attract are those who have seen your art and know of your work from somewhere else and have confidence in your ability. Otherwise, how do you expect to appeal to new audiences when all they know of you is you don't want them to see your potential until AFTER they've paid you? Does not make sense and seems like backwards logic.

Now, why did I mention all of that? Because I am opposed to people who paywall their art. They have this talent and they are using it the wrong way. Yes, artists need to make money too, but there is 100% a right way and a wrong way to ask for that. Not all scams are people offering commissions and then disappearing once payment is processed; paywalling content, to me, seems like the biggest scam in the art world. Unless they already share their work somewhere for free, supporting an artist's paywalled content is like gambling. Maybe the art is good, maybe it isn't; pay them and find out.

I understand your disinterest in AI-generated content, believe me. I was appalled by it at first, fervently. But can you really say that now that I have been playing around with an AI creating various images of creatures who never existed in styles only inspired by other artists* (you know, the way every real artist develops their own style, by drawing inspiration from other artists (*but, of course, not to discredit results that resemble far too closely an artists style, which is a problem on the user for generating too closely)) -- can you really say that it is hurting real artists, me using this free software because I don't have the money to support another artist and therefore would have not been able to support that artist to begin with, AI content isn't always good so real artists will forever have the upper hand, and then even more so, if people are using AI to generate work the replicates an artist who paywalls their content, 1: to me, that just sounds like free publicity -- now people can actually see what your art looks like and might consider support you to see what the real artist can do, and 2: then maybe that's the problem with paywalling content, which has never been a secret in a world where piracy is prevelent in every facet of media and entertainment.

Is AI headed in the right direction? I'm going to say yes. As a toy. As a tool. And just like every other toy and tool out there, it is up to the PEOPLE who use them to be careful HOW they use them, otherwise they might hurt themselves, or even other people.
thecooler
thecooler
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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Very good points but sadly all you said comes to the ground by making and posting of this "works" in stupid amounts with out any human edition and thousands of others doing the same (cause they "can't draw") how? well...

Even if you did not had the money to commission I can understand that, not all people can get those commodities, one been myself the artist producing commission who can't actually commission others, I know what that is like, that would not be a problem as you say as some one else would? and would they really? your expecting others to do what you can't but the real damage you are creating is posting this, that is hurting artists is that you are not just NOT commissioning but your posting loads of AI stuff into the algorithm. the visibility for artists is now nul popularizing the "we don't need an artist" idea, when you look for an judy hopps image in the search 50% or more here or google are AI generated and to add salt to the wound they would get it for free?, no artist can compete with free! you want them to lower they prices to starvation! as its happening more in pour countries, no one thinks of the little guy, as it is my case my commissions are an extra money, I still got to work 2 jobs and thats why I am so behind delivery, its not a viable income where I live, and now I got to compete to that? my $5 are crazy to ask for how dare I?

Its simply not fair even if I could make incredible things its been burried under piles of AI generated things that when I post my work the AI will take it on your request and generate with it tons more.

Its Literally making artist talent valueless. its making art meaningless its reducing art creativity to 1's and 0's thinking AI can be original and creative (two things its not) and its certainly not appreciating the work, time, effort and skills learn or knowledge of the artists, if the product you get mimics it close enough, and that's just ok for you, its a constant I don't want to wait for things, I don't want quality only quantity issue in this new generations combine with the "why learn it when the computer does it for me" mentality its what's gonna cripple the art fandoms.

I agree that tools can be used for great things but for the big picture in the long run its not looking pretty for artist that won't and can't now compete and now have to leave their passions to go to work on some thing they provably would hate, as I am sadly doing, you can argue that artist will continue to do art regardless of if it makes money from it or not and that is true BUT thanks to the endless posting, its gonna be very lonely if I am the only one watching my own art loosing completely the Expression part of art that actually makes it art, HUMAN, peoples, expression. some thing AI is not.

AI is the result of less and less art education around the world on schools. no one appreciates art and that is why its ok to just tell a computer to do it for us and call it a day "no human interaction required" and if you don't like it why pay an artist to fix it? just keep generating and posting endlessly until you get the closes enough so then you will call that "art".

You got to admit that if you could do what the AI does with your own hands using your own talents after years of work and learning wouldn't you rather do that? wouldn't you like to be free from AI? from not depending on it for refs? for shading, for what you use it for? and wouldn't you like to be praised for it? share it? for getting your Real hard work recognized and appreciated instead of, knowing now you can't do it with out the AI? I can still use a pensil and draw silly cartoon animals. can you?

AI is reducing your capabilities, its reducing your creativity, its limiting it to its parameters, its blocking it from becoming more with out it. the more you use Tech for art the Less you express of YOURELF into your work. this is what we fight for YOUR expression visibility.

Peace to you and may the force be with you.
SimonCivet
SimonCivet
3 months, 3 weeks ago
link
Okay, now you're just going around in circles solely to reiterate the exact opposite points that I have been saying. If you don't want to use AI, that's fine, that's your choice, but stop trying to make it out like anyone using AI for the slightest purpose is doing horrible things.
Firstly, I already said that I don't post these AI creations anywhere. I share them with friends like you would a screenshot you took in a game, because I know my friends would enjoy seeing me have fun any way I can manage it.
Secondly, and I feel like this is more telling of how you feel about your own art more than anything, I can't even fathom how you think that using AI to supplement one's artwork is lowering their artistic ability. The last two posts on my profile are a digital painting and a traditional drawing, on par, if not better, than most of my previous work, because even though I'm a musician, I still take time to practice drawing. Yes, the digital painting was made "with the help of AI" -- I told it to generate a pose to use as a reference that I used TO DRAW IT MYSELF. If you're opposed to this kind of use of AI tools, then you are simply saying one of two things:
1: That you would prefer that artists replicate the work of other artists to inspire their poses, not tracing them, to be inspired by them, or
2: that you are just trying to abolish the use of an artistic reference as a whole, which, if it's the latter option, then it sounds to me like you still have A LOT left to learn about art for the stance that you're taking on it.
Probably 99% of artists use some sort of reference in their art (99% because clearly you don't). Sometimes, yes, those references come from using other artists' works. Additionally, you can simply Google search pose references and be given A SLEW of publically available (yes, "publically available" and not just "morally ambiguous search results", not to say there aren't any) results of other artists creating pose references for other artists to use, or even full models -- real human models -- participating in free-to-use, public domain photoshoots for people to use as references for poses. What's that? You still feel morally insecure about using these results as references? No problem! Art stores, physical art supply stores, sell a physical modeling mannequin that you can pose however you want to reference in your art because not everyone -- yes, including many professional artists -- is capable of developing a pose out of thin air and translating that to a drawing. They may know what they want the pose to look like, but they don't how to make it look like that. If you don't use art references, then that's on you. But how you can sit there and say that anyone using an AI tool to HELP them with their art only for it to magically diminish their artistic ability sounds purely like you're just throwing your insecurities elsewhere.

If you have a problem with AI, that's fine. Don't use it. But to say that ANYONE who uses AI as a tool to supplement their art -- which, since I'm sure you don't know what that means, means to help with it by adding to it -- or as a way of learning to draw -- because I know you haven't looked into everything AI can do, yes, it can teach people to draw; it can show them how, it can describe to them how, IT CAN RECOMMEND THEM ARTISTS WHO CAN BETTER EXPLAIN HOW -- well, then that's just closed-minded thinking for someone who claims to be an artist on the side of supporting real artist. Face it, what you mean is you want people with money to support people with money, because these are the artists. And if people want to be artists, then they better get money and pay someone to teach them. Or, if they don't want to be an artist but still want custom art, then they STILL need to *magically* acquire money to pay someone to make art for them.

Or, to stop wanting anything to do with art. I'm pretty sure that's the point you're getting at.
LegoWormNoah101
LegoWormNoah101
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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Edited 3 months, 3 weeks ago by Owner
I view the present of A.I. as an assistant rather than replacement. Plus, I suck at actually drawing qwq
thecooler
thecooler
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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true, but I also feel like AI Is assisting you to much! and there for you are not really learning and there for its actually limiting you to actually be able to do that on your own.
WolfScout09911221
WolfScout09911221
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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Good thing that I asked my friend about it first, for I just do it as a hobby and never post it. I 100% agree that it shouldn't replace hardworking people who do art for a living.
Alfador
Alfador
3 months, 3 weeks ago
link
> Your "Art" can't be monetized!, can't be sold! it cant be copywrited and it can't be even claim as some thing you did! so what is the point of doing it?

People have been making art long before copyright laws and money existed. If you can't think of a better reason for creating art than just to sell it, why did you get started as an artist in the first place? Creating art is what humans DO, regardless of how sophisticated the tools for doing so get.

> Then why post the AI generated one? post the one you created based on the Reference!

To prove that you weren't just tracing over it, that you created a piece using the AI art as a reference instead of just putting it through a bunch of filters to conceal its origin. To show that, regardless of what tools you use, you are still a competent artist in your own right.

> having an idea on what you want it to do does not make you an artist, an artist takes that idea and brings it into reality,

By your argument, photography is not an art form, because you're only pressing a button and things that are already real get on the film. Why do we celebrate the directors of movies when all they do is tell other people what to do instead of doing the acting themselves?

> it is not really a drawing tool if it does not really allow you to do and change choices on every step of the way

Then inpainting AI tools are drawing tools; their entire function is to make changes to already-generated images, to impose your choices on the finished product.

> that description of what the AI is doing its just a fancy way to say its creating a diffused water down collage!.

It's also a straw man description. That is not at all what AI art programs do. They don't use any part of the source images they learn from as components of the final image; they have associations of words with patterns of values and generate somewhat randomized patterns to maximize the fit with those associations.

> If it "learn" why does it keep making the same mistakes over and over and when it finally makes the eyes right for example the legs or arms fingers etc are back into been all crooked and shait?

Because all the "learning" happens between versions of the software. You generate a thousand images on the same AI, it will make the same mistakes a thousand times. Unless, of course, you're manually feeding the images it creates back in with feedback on what it got wrong. If you're not doing that, it has no way to learn what it did wrong. The learning happens when the initial image set is loaded and processed.

> "I am not using it to make money! but I will take commissions so you can tell me what do you want me to tell the AI to do for you!." [...] like seriously WTFF is wrong with that people!!!??

To return to the photography analogy, this is like hiring a professional photographer. If creating prompts based on a concept did not require skill, nobody would pay for it.

> I guess 5 years of collage university studies [...] courses are useless now I guess?

Heck no, all that puts you in the perfect position to use AI art generators. You know exactly what needs to get fixed for an image to go from "blobs vaguely shaped like a concept" to "polished image without stupid mistakes". Lighting's wrong? Perspective's wrong? These are things it takes an artistic eye to notice and fix, with or without further AI assistance.

> that was the point all Making Money! and sale it to people that can't nor want to take the time to learn how to draw,

Isn't that exactly what you do with your own art? Your gallery is full of commissions you've done for other people.

One last note I will have in support of you here: you're right that companies are abusing AI art programs when they should be hiring artists. They're making unlicensed commercial use of the images used to train the algorithms. And that is wrong! But I see too many people claim AI art programs as a concept are immoral just because companies are using them to harm people.
thecooler
thecooler
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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Lets go in order of your arguments

>The main factor on why post things I did if I don't get payed for it is that I DID IT! if you think about it then AI has many galleries since people post things the AI does NOT things they did, they are literally saturating the network with it and making the people Who actually did some thing not get any visibility at all, and what's worst it might already been used by AI to generate more images to ad piles over the real artist, even if you did not get payed for it and its a hobby or for the love or art with AI YOU DIDN'T DO IT! fact is what breaks down your first argument. also Davinci, Michelangelo and all the other ninja turtles (jocking) where payed for their most famous art works.

>you can also trace AI generated images. so what was your point here? so that you won't be pointed out you traced other peoples work by using a reference that was created by a thing that can literally could trace out billions of other drawings?

>Photography is and art cause you are choosing what your taking a picture of and many pictures are compositions, specially portraits, it works with it not takes it from it, so its not just pressing a button if you plan it all the steps ahead and your in charge of what the outcome is, some thing you don't have with AI. also the artistic photography do need revelation!, printing or exposition, with a camera you can say I took the picture, with AI you say I told it to do some thing. The Photographer also uses technics skills and knowledge you can learn they now have a school on such art. the reason why we celebrate directors of movies is because the director controls every single detail of the outcome!, a bad director makes a bad movie or an actor do its worst, also a director is not an actor yes but has some thing AI lacks again Knowledge, experience, it knows what the actors can do, and knows about picture, scenography, sound, telling, theather, etc thats why Cinema is the 7th art! it convines them ALL!. its not just telling people what to do and see what comes out.

>But that is not tracing?

>I am sorry to cut it to you but there is no such thing as a random number generator, There are two common methods for generating random numbers from a computer: Pseudo-Random Number Generators (PRNGs) and True Random Number Generators (TRNGs) that currently do not exist. To generate PRNGs, a computer uses a seed number and an algorithm to generate numbers that seem to be random, but are actually predictable. taking this to lines colors and shades etc its the same method, its simply not learning your programming it

>I guess that do makes sense but then still why would it forget it 10 minutes after if you tell it to do some thing else.

> I actually agree with that nobody would pay for it and no body should pay for it either! not even people who use it but as we can see the "best AI" is payed, what exactly are they gonna pay for? the fact that the "artist" have no require skills?.

>
" These are things, it takes an artistic eye to notice and fix, with or without further AI assistance
then why use AI if you already got the eye and skills to fix it on your own? oh wait its provably because you don't have such skills and know it so need an easy fix.

>Because in comparison with AI I need to eat, and not all are commission, I just been in need of making those more often, If I could get payed for just drawing what I wanted that would be awesome! but I need to eat, buy meds, take care of my cats, pay a rent, the bus, etc.

As I said on my final conclusion too to also confirm what you said on your last words, the point of AI is to not pay!, they want us artist to train it for free so they can have their slave that will do all what those artist can for free, and those who use it and train it they don't see the harm they are doing to every single artist out there each time an AI generated image is posted. cause that was not recognized and it was not earned either.
Alfador
Alfador
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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Edited 3 months, 3 weeks ago by Owner
>The main factor on why[...]
* I wasn't arguing that you have no reason to make art, YOU were saying there was no point to making art except to get paid for it, and I was pointing out that there are plenty of reasons to make art even if you can't make money from it (the "why" was a rhetorical question). Which is exactly what you said. I can't imagine why you think we're in disagreement there.

>you can also trace AI[...]
* Apparently I was unclear here. You asked why someone might post an AI generated reference instead of just the finished work, and I pointed out that, if you only post the finished work properly tagged as 'ai_assisted' people might assume that you did none of the work, when in fact the AI generated portion bears as much resemblance to your work as a stock photograph used as reference. You post the steps for completeness; also why artists sometimes post sketch versions.

>Photography is and art[...]
* Photographers can't control all variables, especially when taking a photograph in which anything at all is in motion. Wildlife photography sometimes takes as many failed shots to get something under just the right conditions, as getting a good result from an AI art generator does.
* Controlling the prompts and inputs to an AI art generator is a skill as well. You have to learn how the AI interprets the prompt and techniques for controlling that interpretation that are unique to each generator.
* We don't have schools on AI art generation because it's too new for any to be established, so that's literally an impossible goalpost.
* Every single detail of the outcome? You think the director plays QWOP with every actor's limbs, that every single aspect of filmmaking is personally micromanaged? And yes, the director has knowledge that AI art programs lack--that's the knowledge YOU have. You, as the person crafting prompts for the AI, are the director. You direct it to make what you want, and sometimes a "scene" will take many "takes". Just like in film.

>But that is not tracing?
* I'm not sure what you're referring to here; what I said in this position had to do with inpainting tools that allow you to "do and change choices on every step of the way".

>I am sorry to cut it to you but there is no such thing as a random number generator [...] True Random Number Generators (TRNGs) that currently do not exist.
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardware_random_number_ge... True random number generators DO exist, have existed for decades. There are problems with them in that when they fail, they tend to produce less random, more predictable output rather than outright errors, but even pseudorandom number generators, if properly implemented, are near enough to random as to make their output unpredictable by any human who isn't simply running the algorithm itself alongside (either with a separate program or by hand on paper).
* If we could program an algorithm to "know" the rules of how shapes appear in images without throwing thousands of source images with tag sets into a machine learning algorithm, don't you think we'd have come up with that first? It'd certainly save on hard drive space and RAM!

 (this is too long and I need to make a second reply; please see the next reply I have to this one)
Alfador
Alfador
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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>I guess that do makes sense but then still why would it forget it 10 minutes after[...]
* Because the AI art programs currently available take a very long time to process a data set. I haven't done it yet myself, but I found a guide for a large language model (chatbot) processing just text, not images (therefore much smaller amount of memory!) and it still estimated several DAYS to get it up and running. Making multiple submissions in the space of 10 minutes is effectively stateless, unless there are improvements to the learning models I'm not aware of yet. AI programs in general, where they have memory at all, tends to be extremely short term--the fact that we can get them to act on something other than the very most recent prompt is a very new thing.

> I actually agree [...] what exactly are they gonna pay for?
* Crafting a prompt, having a custom dataset, fixing the images with inpainting and manual edits. There's plenty of skills required to get a polished image instead of something with obviously AI-generated imperfections, and those skills are marketable.

> [...]then why use AI if you already got the eye and skills to fix it on your own?[...]
* Why use Photoshop and a tablet instead of a paintbrush and canvas? AI art generators are just another tool for artists to use. Those who want to use it should; those who don't want to use it shouldn't feel forced to. (Which brings up the problem of immoral companies forcing the new tool, like how Photoshop became industry standard and they jacked the price up.)

>Because in comparison with AI I need to eat[...]
* What I meant was that you're talking about making art for money and selling it to people who can't or don't want to draw it themselves, as if it's a bad thing, when that's exactly what you do for a living. Any artist using AI generators needs to eat just as much as you do. This more makes a case against our current economic system than against one more career getting automated.
thecooler
thecooler
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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" one more career getting automated
. human expression should not be. for then what are you expressing then? art is beyond been just a carrier it means and is sooo much more!. I am sure you know that.
MystBunny
MystBunny
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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I really don't understand all this hostility I've been seeing towards AI art. In my opinion, it can easily exist alongside real art. There is too much difference between the two for one to replace the other, and that goes both ways. As for commissions, I will always commission real artists for art rather than ask for or create an AI image of what I want to see, because AI will never match the intuition of the unspoken which is necessary for commissions. Not to mention the biggest threat to commissions I've seen had never been AI art, but subscription services like Subscribestar and Patreon. Artists who rely heavily on those for income aren't engaging with commissions as much, making commissions harder to find for the buyer, so even IF AI could replace commissions, it would do so to fill a demand that's just not being met. However, I COULD see AI replacing paywalls, since there are so many restrictions in these subscription services, and more to come, that paywalled art will likely become more and more vanilla and bland, which AI COULD potentially replicate since there is so much material to draw from on that front that it wouldn't require much input. (That's excluding the potential for AI to work around cropped/censored public releases, however unethical one might deem it.)

" maybe you aren't but you are supporting those who do

I'd be careful with statements like this, laying the responsibility of people using anything for nefarious purposes at the feet of those not doing so. This has been the basis of so many rules and laws that are unfair to all but a few bad actors, as well as the kind that put sites like this in peril.
thecooler
thecooler
3 months, 3 weeks ago
link
As I said on my final conclusion too to also confirm what you said on your comment, the point of AI is to not pay!, they want us artist to train it for free so they can have their slave that will do all what those artist can for free, and those who use it and train it they don't see the harm they are doing to every single artist out there each time an AI generated image is posted.

I am happy to read you said
" I will always commission real artists for art rather than ask for or create an AI image of what I want to see, because AI will never match the intuition of the unspoken which is necessary for commissions.
but the problem is not a paywall its that AI is not respecting the paywall either. Artists usually need a paywall cause they are Obviously not capable on their own to fill the demand for commissions and they would love to be payed for what they want to do rather than what they are hired to do, they are popular for their skills how ever when thousands of AI generated images are been posted and been popular how would the artist get commission and visibility it needs? how would you find them under piles and piles of AI generated images? even one like me that are cheap hopefully decent I have not had any of my work show on the popular section since AI. does not matter how many people fav my work and get my name out there while people that post this things get 2000 watchers in 1 moth that took me 13 years to get! or are surpassing the popular artists already and its only popular cause it emulates the popular artists! cause obviously that's what they are feeding it with, its just far beyond Unfair.

Cause for what you said that was not recognized and it was not earned either.
MystBunny
MystBunny
3 months, 3 weeks ago
link
Could be mistaken, but I believe I've come across this one in the popular section at least.
https://inkbunny.net/s/3223830

Also one thing to keep in mind is that if someone has AI art blocked, the popular section, the full section, doesn't show fewer submissions. It populates it according to one's blocked tags. It's not a full ban from the popular section, but it's something. I think the staff are trying to figure out what to do about it, since I think I remember they said it would be difficult to change the popular section to ban tags on its own without the user doing so. Maybe there's some way they could trick the popular section into reading blocked tags that aren't there?

Last thing, I do want artists to be able to make money while drawing more of what they want, but paywalling, particularly the ones through subscription services, present their own issues that not many artists are willing to talk about. Honestly having been strawmanned and blocked so much for trying to have ANY kind of discussion on the subject where I'm not 100% on board with whatever they want has got me a little jaded on the subject.
thecooler
thecooler
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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Really? you seen that in the popular posts? I sadly miss that,

humm yea maybe I should just block and let it go... But... that is not fixing the problem its just hiding it, its like putting a blanket over a dead body and just leave it there. its eventually going to start to stick in other ways even if I do not put attention to it.
MystBunny
MystBunny
3 months, 3 weeks ago
link
Maybe. I don't want to completely dismiss the possibility it could become a huge problem down the road, and I don't want to say you're wrong for calling attention to it, but personally I just don't know what to expect, and haven't seen cause for panic just yet. One thing I've seen artists doing very rarely, but in abundance in AI is detailed fur. That's one of the few things keeping me from labeling AI as pointless. It's something I've always wanted to see more of, but I know it's difficult and EXTREMELY time consuming for an artist to get right. On the other hand, AI art with more than one character in it gets messy as fuck, and in those, artists have the upper hand. So there are definite advantages to both.
Deepdark
Deepdark
3 months, 3 weeks ago
link
So tired of these rants from artists on here.

You all like to make points about real art by real artists.
Yet looking at the art you yourself made 12 years ago vs work you uploaded only last week showing no real improvement in form or quality, it makes me want to go on a rant about lazy low effort artists preaching about what is allowed to be called an artform.

Maybe people who make AI art enjoy doing it and just like to share their successes with an awkward and imperfect software.
Maybe people weho like to look at it can follow those artists and others who dislike it like you fore example can just block the keyword and get on with your life.

This is my opinion so call me an ass all you like, im too old to care.

/rant over.
thecooler
thecooler
3 months, 3 weeks ago
link
Edited 3 months, 3 weeks ago by Owner
Thank you for not reading nor comprehending any of my points at all.

And been the prefect example of argument #6

In any part of this I am ranting that I am not popular cause my art is not good, Its not about if your good or not at art its about YOU DOING THE ART! as usual those who criticize others Skills are those that never post theirs not try to improve at all in the arts or at any on for what I experience with that kind of people they just GO with what ever its on and move on with their lives right? who cares what other people who do things are going threw if it does not affect me or what I do in any way! right? does not matter how many people fav my work and get my name out there I am grateful for them that Appreciate what I do and commission me, while people that post this things get 2000 watchers in 1 moth that took me 13 years to get! or are surpassing the popular artists already and its only popular Cause it emulates and Imitates the popular artists!

Cause obviously that's what they are feeding the AI with, its just far beyond Unfair even to popular artist that got the skills I don't. its unearned!

PS: your seriously telling me there is no difference between 2011 to 2024? well that explains allot.
ThaPig
ThaPig
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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AI is just a tool. The examples you see around are people using the tool unethically, or just being lazy.
But there are also good ways of using the tool. I have done a few interesting things with AI and I have seen other artists use AI in productive ways. Of course, when it's well done, nobody notices it.
thecooler
thecooler
3 months, 3 weeks ago
link
really you used AI? I can't see that on your gallery you must use it in the minimal way.
also This is the pure definition of Radical! then you my friend are doing it the right way
as an actual possible tool I could swore you only used Digital art tool do do your work
but that's cause you do not post the AI generate in full, you just adjust little minimal things.
it is still 99.9% you!
jasperfox
jasperfox
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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I agree with what you said.
However, one thing I personally wish ai could do, (and it just may in time)
Is mimic the styles of artists who are no longer with us.
It won't be exactly the same, obviously,  but close, even if in an artificial sense.
thecooler
thecooler
3 months, 3 weeks ago
link
Edited 3 months, 3 weeks ago by Owner
True we want to see more of the great arts masters from the past that left us great joy with their creations, but this is no way to honor their work, I don't think they would like robots to do imitations of their works but instead other artists who inspired by them are recreating new things! creations of their own skill and love for their passion of art and pay homage with love of their work of those that came before them!, with your own creative expression! not commands given to a robot, you as artist  are the one to create beyond what they left and do a extend it more from there of what it meant for you, not a bootleg not just an imitation.

No art master wants its student nor pupil or fan to become an imitator but to surpass what they achieved to extend beyond for the student to become the master! ones he is no longer there to continue with the creation from inspiration not imitation.  
Lust3D
Lust3D
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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It's for easy money of course. From start I seen people uploading packs of pictures on deviantart.
thecooler
thecooler
3 months, 3 weeks ago
link
Deviant art allows AI? ugh... I have not been there in a while its really turning into a sort of virus, reminds me of this song the current state of the world of art
MviluUatusun
MviluUatusun
3 months, 1 week ago
link
I semi-agree with you.  Personally, I don't like AI art because, even though it's "technically" art, it wasn't done by human hand.  Therefore, how can the human creator of said art call him/herself an artist?  I'm no artist.  Like I tell everyone, I can only draw stick figures and I don't do them very well.  However, I can describe something so intimately that the reader can see the scene clearly in their mind.  Maybe that makes me an artist but I'd never claim such a worthy title.
thecooler
thecooler
3 months, 1 week ago
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Thanks for the Semi-suport I guess hehe,
also do you know Writing is an Art too!?.
maybe that's what your art calling is.

I bet you would not like if you write that
detailed soul expression story of your characters
and some AI took it and just replaced your chars
with Batman and Mr Magoo would you?
MviluUatusun
MviluUatusun
3 months, 1 week ago
link
Not in the least.  That's why I make sure and say that my writing can't be used by AI.  Personally, I don't like AI; it may be artificial but it ain't intelligent.  LOL
thecooler
thecooler
3 months ago
link
" MviluUatusun wrote:
I don't like AI; it may be artificial but it ain't intelligent.  LOL
I could have not said it better!
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