Inkbunny

He does actually make the good point that these kids are out of touch with reality and he knows very well what would happen if they lived in a communist system. They don't want to listen, that's on them

TheRevengeX11

6 years, 5 months ago

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There is always something more one can lose. Like one's identity, privacy, possessions, freedom to think... and even freedom to choose.

Jamaay

6 years, 5 months ago

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Why would they want to lose their chains? Chains are great. Especially when they're drawn by Roarey.

Stratus

6 years, 5 months ago

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@ Jamaay

Chains are fucking expensive too.

hammse

6 years, 5 months ago

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AphroditeDraco

6 years, 5 months ago

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Edited 6 years, 5 months ago by Owner

I used to have a neighbor in Oregon a few years ago who talked about how great communism was.  Everything he said was speculation, and whenever real world applications of communism were brought up he'd go right back to his idealistic speculation.  He never produced a shred of evidence that his way was right.  It's like arguing with a Fundamentalist about the validity of the Bible: you can tell them "I don't accept the Bible as true" until you're blue in the face, but they'll just keep right on quoting it and expecting you to change your mind based upon that.

Personally speaking, I've never been fond of this whole subject.  Communism and Socialism both tend to have one overarching aspect that really turns me off and that is the complete and utter lack of individuality.  Everything is based on what group you're a part of, what ethnicity you are, what your financial bracket is, but you yourself and the choices you personally make are basically completely ignored.  I've been through that kind of thing in the past, usually in the form of racist violence against me because, oh my god, I was born white and therefore some dumbass thinks I'm responsible for slavery, so they need to "teach me a lesson" for something I never did, was never involved in, and have always opposed... because individual choices and opinions don't matter to people like that.

I would add that if there are any chains, they are to be found in the very philosophy which these types of people espouse.  You ignore a person's choices, define them based upon their ethnicity or how much money their parents have, and you've essentially shackled them.

By the way, nice artwork.  It's very appropriate given the subject matter.

VoidBat

6 years, 5 months ago

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Ahhhh, politics.

whitewulfe

6 years, 5 months ago

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You know it's early in the morning (and before your morning coffee too) when your first thought is "southpaws don't think that" and it takes a while to realize it's a comment on political lefties....

GreenFur

6 years, 5 months ago

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Edited 6 years, 5 months ago by Owner

@ whitewulfe

"Southpaws???"
Don't lump ME in with those Psudo-Commie Revolutionary Larpers.
for it is a known FACT that left handed people are the Only ones in their Right Minds!
--GF

smblion

6 years, 5 months ago

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There are those who would like to control our lives so completely that life would be little more than a TV show you're forced to endure.

In that scenario I'm not sure anyone would have anything to lose.

LukaBun

6 years, 5 months ago

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you will always have something more to lose.

I would even go so far as to say there are people out in the world that won't hesitate to take everything away from you, bit by bit, until you only have said chains. In the end, you'll be the one clinging onto your chains for dear life.

call it, Obliteration of the Self, or INGSOC.

Athendae

6 years, 5 months ago

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Edited 6 years, 5 months ago by Owner

*while attending an Ivy League university* "We have nothing to lose but our chains!"
*family is worth millions* "We are the proletariat!"
*given every possible advantage in life* "We are systematically oppressed at every turn!"
*holding a $1k iPhone* "Capitalism is evil!"
*drives past and ignores a homeless shelter asking for donations* "I really am helping society, I'm such a good person"

This is revolution now

AphroditeDraco

6 years, 5 months ago

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@ Athendae

^^^This.

Teko

6 years, 5 months ago

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I dunno what wacky "left wing" videos you've found, but actual, everyday people who consider themselves "left wing" or "progressive" certainly don't say or believe in that drivel. Naive college students who're confusing progressive politics with communism might, but communism only works as a theory on paper and most definitely not in the real world.

RoareyRaccoon

6 years, 5 months ago

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@ Teko

So you don't know what I'm referring to, which is your problem. Don't tell me what I'm wrong to refer to when you don't know what it is. I know the sane left wing isn't insane, I'm left wing myself.

Teko

6 years, 5 months ago

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As Our Host did not post the videos he was referencing, of course I don't know what specific videos he is referring to, therefore I can only respond to what's posted here.

As such, my comment is that the sort of pro-communist propaganda he's referencing is, as he says, very silly and unproductive. I am agreeing with him.

However, as always, he is clearly looking for and hoping for conflict, rather than agreement, and will hope to argue with people instead of actually reading their comments.

VileFiend

6 years, 5 months ago

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You would think people would avoid quoting tyrants when supposedly denouncing tyranny.

taurex

6 years, 5 months ago

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nu commies protesting from the security of private colleges... hmmm

TheAtomicDog

6 years, 5 months ago

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"no matter how densely chained one is, you always have more to lose."
And so Our Host fails to apprehend the mind of the rebel, the revolutionary and the suicidal.

RoareyRaccoon

6 years, 5 months ago

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Not so, I understand perfectly, especially suicidal because I was suicidal for over a decade of my life haha. It isn't a failure to understand it is a direct recognition of the basic fact that self made chains are imaginary figments and when you think you have nothing to lose the reality is you're completely wrong. We aren't talking about people in gulags here who have already lost it all and are about to die, we're talking about university students. These people are the most privileged people in our society for their age group and they describe their own lives as being chained as they chant they have nothing more to lose. Yet they objectively do. I don't care that they convince themselves they don't, the whole point of this cartoon is to recognize that of course they BELIEVE they have nothing more to lose, but they're categorically WRONG to do so. That is your failure to understand my point, mate.

TheAtomicDog

6 years, 5 months ago

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The Founders of the USA weren't locked up in prisons either--well, at least not at first. And yet they staked it all on a roll of the dice to shake free of the British Empire because they saw that enough was enough. And the vast majority of those men weren't just privileged, they were the Colonial elites. Many of the signatories to the Declaration of Independence did not live to see an independent America, including the biggest and most ostentatious name on that document. Were they wrong to declare how bad things were? Were they wrong to declare form their positions of comfort and privilege "Give me liberty or give me death"?
I've heard and read this nonsense here in the states as well: those well-off or privileged should have no chance to utter truth and say how bad things are, unless it's a compliant the conservatives can agree to. Utter twaddle. The connies also tell the poor much the same thing: because even America's poor are better off than two-thirds of the world's population, they therefore have nothing to complain about and should just shut up, lest conservative become uncomfortable, or worse, offended.
Bollocks.
Whomever dares to utter the truth, let them, regardless of their estate. What are you afraid of?

RoareyRaccoon

6 years, 5 months ago

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Edited 6 years, 5 months ago by Owner

What on earth are you on about? I'm not getting into bullshit that lies outside the scope of the cartoon here lol. There is nothing true about the statement "we have nothing to lose but our chains", so they're not speaking truth they're speaking bollocks. And it doesn't scare me, it irritates me.

TheAtomicDog

6 years, 5 months ago

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To wit, from your own post directly above:
"These people are the most privileged people in our society for their age group and they describe their own lives as being chained as they chant they have nothing more to lose. Yet they objectively do."
This also describes the Founders quite succinctly, if somewhat myopically.
" I don't care that they convince themselves they don't, the whole point of this cartoon is to recognize that of course they BELIEVE they have nothing more to lose, but they're categorically WRONG to do so."
Don't presume. It is not for you to dictate what they have to lose and what not. And anyways, with the Rule of the Broken Analog Clock in effect at all times, leftists can and do get some things quite correct:
http://i.imgur.com/y4VtUBh.jpg

RoareyRaccoon

6 years, 5 months ago

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1) Don't care about the founders, they're dead. 2) Students objectively have more to lose than the apparent chains which they believe define their current lives. It isn't an assumption it's a fact. They are alive, ergo they have not yet lost their lives, so they have more to lose even if literally nothing else. Basic shit.

TheAtomicDog

6 years, 5 months ago

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While the Founders are dead, they also happen to be right. Nor were they afraid to die, because they knew this. See, there are things more valuable than merely being alive. Even the Bible got that one right:
"Even if a man fathers a hundred children and lives many years--even if he lives a long, long time, but cannot enjoy his prosperity--even if he were to live forever--I would say, "A stillborn child is better off than he!"
Ecclesiastes 6:3
So if people are well-fed and "protected", but are not free and satisfied, then they are imprisoned and they know it. Safety and security by itself is not enough; a gilded cage is still a cage. And freedom, liberty and satisfaction, even under threat of death, is still more desirable than a long lifetime of enchainment.
And no, this isn't basic shit. It's a bit more advanced.

RoareyRaccoon

6 years, 5 months ago

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Dude, just stop it, you're having an argument with an imaginary person. I don't know if its because criticism of communism makes you uneasy but either way it has nowt to do with me. I'm interested in tearing into communism, because I see it on the rise and it is an existential threat. I'm not interested in talking about the founding fathers of the USA, I'm not interested in piddling over the nuances of conservative and liberal thought. There is nothing of any value whatsoever in communism just like fascism, so I want to poke holes in it. If you want to go after other political positions do it with someone else. I'm sick of people coming to me to change the fucking subject.

TheAtomicDog

6 years, 5 months ago

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Criticism of communism? What makes you think "we have nothing to lose but out chains" is a philosophy exclusive to the left? Chains are chains. Whatever government oppression-- this includes the church; economic oppression; injustice; changing social norms; immigration; whatever else they despise so much, that they are willing to risk all, and lose all, to strive for betterment. Regardless of the source of your quote, it really isn't communist or socialist or leftist, or conservative or traditionalist or right-wing. It Humanity's natural impulse to rebel and reject any status quo, and risk life and property to have it better. That's how and why America was founded, some years before Communism was invented.
And I must add here that I find the second half of your submission's statement somewhat interesting. "It would appear to me that an ideology that necessitates the belief that one is oppressed by all of society is the thing creating the fucking chains." In America this exact ideal is the basis for most-all of the conservatives' current complaint. The Persecution Complex does not recognize idealogical boundaries.

RoareyRaccoon

6 years, 5 months ago

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That isn't the damn point. Of course it isn't exclusive to the left, but the quote itself is if not the sentiment. I'm criticising the communist usage of the concept, not every usage of it, because cartoons are always limited in scope. I'm not interested in making some huge essay or series of cartoons going over all the instances of this particular sentiment throughout politics. And no, conservatives are not making this same point at all, they don't argue they are chained, you should try listening to them. They argue the opposite, that their country is the most free place on earth, they love it and want to protect it and see, correctly, the far left and far right trying to destroy it. I agree with them on that diagnosis. Every time I bring up critique of commie bastard nonsense you or several other somebody's have a need to bring up conservatives like they're any way comparable. No mate, the only political ideology comparable to commies are fascists.

GreenFur

6 years, 5 months ago

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how about, just for the lulz, mind you, that we suggest bringing back "The House Committy On UnAmerican Activity" back from the dustbin of history?

"Are You Now, Or Have You Ever Been, A Member Of The Communist Party?"

Pure shorts-filling Comedy Gold.
as a student of history, i am seeing more and more of the crimson banners at protests and mobs fomenting for "Revolution" they should heed the words often attributed to Marshal Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto who counseled against going to war with America "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."
it was true then and it is true today,for there is an ever increasing segment of the population who are growing tired of the implied threat to our way of life being emboldened by the restraint of the american people, they should keep in mind if they poke the bear once too often, they shall come face to face with that "Terrible Resolve."

Than again, perhaps those over privileged college kids mindlessly babbling lines from the Communist manifesto have no idea the source but that it sounds cool as they go "Larping as Revolutionaries"
--GF

TheAtomicDog

6 years, 5 months ago

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If you wish to attack communism do it directly. Don't talk trash about students who chant a slogan you don't like, saying they're wrong just because you said so. That's cheap and lazy, and while perhaps entertaining it doesn't make you look good. And with decades of demonstrative communist/socialist governments from around the world to examine, dissecting the thing isn't really a challenge. For me, the best argument against communism is that those two nations that for decades were the greatest champions of communism, no longer are...
And yes silly boy, I DO listen to my conservative fellow-citizens. For years. I'm from TEXAS, are you joking? And they DO piss and moan constantly about being persecuted and imposed upon by all kinds of malevolent forces. But upon examination, the source of their complaint is that they're offended that they're actually being held to account for being the bigoted and selfish assholes they truly are. Conservatives don't like to be questioned or challenged, and that is exactly what they are being subjected to. The only American freedoms they're concerned with are their own, to hell with everyone else. They only love America and want to defend those parts of it that serve themselves, to hell with everyone else. And conservative America ARE the far right: racist, Mammonistic yet fanatical, not so much misogynistic but they REALLY hate women who dare talk back to men, generally xenophobic and generally convinced that the world owes them everything while they owe the world nothing. American conservatives HATE being so constantly reminded that they're not the center of the world. And American connies would LOVE to be open fascists, to reign over everyone in terror and violence. They fantasize about it constantly, because that IS how they used to rule. Esp. in the South.
Connies and commies both want the same thing: to have total control all to themselves. And they are to be equally despised.

RoareyRaccoon

6 years, 5 months ago

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Don't tell me how to do what I want to do. Fuck off.

TheAtomicDog

6 years, 5 months ago

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Shush.
Mummy and daddy are talking, now. Just go stomp off to your room, there's a good lad.

Kalibran

4 years, 4 months ago

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Classy. We all *totally* think of you as the adult here after that.

TheAtomicDog

4 years, 4 months ago

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@ Kalibran

Boy, are YOU late to the party!

Maulkin

6 years, 5 months ago

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"	MrSOCKS wrote:
	If you wish to attack communism do it directly.

Certainly! Communism in theory is an evil system that denies people the right to the fruits of their own labor when it comes to using those fruits to make more fruits - after all, communism posits to nationalize the means of production, and therefore any means of production one wishes to make will be subsumed by the state. This is reason enough to justify it as evil.

In practice, Communism is the most violent and vile ideology, and has resulted in more death and violation of basic human rights than any other system.

"	MrSOCKS wrote:
	Don't talk trash about students who chant a slogan you don't like, saying they're wrong just because you said so. That's cheap and lazy, and while perhaps entertaining it doesn't make you look good.

Do you have problems reading? Because I've seen some rather astute criticism of these chants; for example, "We have nothing to lose but our chains" is ridiculous because the ones who say it are generally quite privileged and have a great deal to lose - especially if their desired system comes to fruition! Indeed, the very reason these chants are so hilariously entertaining is that they are so patently false, it's humorous to watch the morons sperge out over it.

"	MrSOCKS wrote:
	And with decades of demonstrative communist/socialist governments from around the world to examine, dissecting the thing isn't really a challenge. For me, the best argument against communism is that those two nations that for decades were the greatest champions of communism, no longer are...

Those are certainly good arguments, but not the best; we need only look to the theory itself and communism in practice to say, "Wow, holy shit, let's not do that."

MrSOCKS wrote:

And yes silly boy, I DO listen to my conservative fellow-citizens. For years. I'm from TEXAS, are you joking? And they DO piss and moan constantly about being persecuted and imposed upon by all kinds of malevolent forces. But upon examination, the source of their complaint is that they're offended that they're actually being held to account for being the bigoted and selfish assholes they truly are.

I don't know the people you're referring to, so I cannot say for certain whether you are correct; however, given what you've said below... Well, I'll just address that point.

"	MrSOCKS wrote:
	Conservatives don't like to be questioned or challenged, and that is exactly what they are being subjected to.

You're joking, right? Conservatives have ALWAYS been questioned and challenged; indeed, accusations of 'racism' and 'hitler' have been the norm. What hasn't been the norm is that conservatives are nutting up and fighting back - a nice change, imho ^.^

"	MrSOCKS wrote:
	The only American freedoms they're concerned with are their own, to hell with everyone else. They only love America and want to defend those parts of it that serve themselves, to hell with everyone else.

Knowing a good number of conservatives, I have to disagree; most think that what they want for America is best for everyone, regardless of whatever group you're in.

(More)

TheAtomicDog

6 years, 5 months ago

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http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/643/9...
*See? SEE? THIS is how you assail communism! This is hard? Back it up with actual, real world examples of this statement(of which there is no small supply) and you got yourself a win. What?

*I've already disassembled the whole "chains/privileged" thing. Across the world and across the ages, people of privilege and comfort risk everything to get something better. And that's because the value of any enchainment remains entirely subjective. Whether it be the Founders, other historic revolutionaries, the Buddah, or anyone in an abuseive relationship. "This life sucks! I want better, so I'll risk all to get it." This is not leftist or socialist, it is human. Simply because Marx gave a quote on it does not give him ownership to this universal truth.

*An objective examination of Christianity would yield the same result. But see, people need PROOF. They need meaty examples in the real world that they can apprehend with their animal senses. The burnt hand teaches best. And until any policy is actually TRIED, there is room for doubt and willingness TO experiment. So hold up China and Russia and remind folks that they tried communism and how that work out? Or just point to Venezuela in real time. Ain't it workin' out great for them?

*You may not know those people directly or personally-- a blessing, that. But these people have been out and loud about themselves for over ten years. They're kind of hard to miss. And they elected a man to be POTUS who is just like them...woe to the Union.

"You're joking, right? Conservatives have ALWAYS been questioned and challenged; indeed, accusations of 'racism' and 'hitler' have been the norm."
*Yes. And they hate every moment of it. They are so convinced of their own righteousness, they take any challenge to their beliefs as a mortal personal insult. The easiest way to get a connie to bow up and hiss is to challenge their opinions. Just look at the behavior of Our Host, or any of the prominent connies out there. And let the connies try to defend their positions. It makes me feel somewhat nostalgic, tbh.

"most think that what they want for America is best for everyone,"
And THAT'S the problem! When anyone thinks they know what's best for someone else, without ever asking input from that someone else as to what they might really want or need, you get the kind of disruptive policies connies rightly bash the libs for pursuing. And this touches on another issue with conservative America: they just 'think'. They never seem to get around to knowing anything, they just 'think'. Allowing opinions or beliefs to overrule demonstrative fact is the second biggest weakness in conservative doctrine.

"My dear, I have seen conservatives and I have seen people one might describe as racist."
I have lived around conservatives now close to fifty years, including my own family. They are racist. Whites, blacks, latinos. if they're conservative, they also tend to be racist. I've even met conservative racist Americans who still hate the Irish!

Maulkin

6 years, 5 months ago

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First off - PLEASE use quotes. You can click 'quote this', and get the basic quote format; copy/paste it as needed.

MrSOCKS wrote:

*I've already disassembled the whole "chains/privileged" thing. Across the world and across the ages, people of privilege and comfort risk everything to get something better. And that's because the value of any enchainment remains entirely subjective. Whether it be the Founders, other historic revolutionaries, the Buddah, or anyone in an abuseive relationship. "This life sucks! I want better, so I'll risk all to get it." This is not leftist or socialist, it is human. Simply because Marx gave a quote on it does not give him ownership to this universal truth.

And that still doesn't change the stupidity of what they're saying, especially in light of what they're trying to fight for. The Founders did not claim that they had nothing to lose; they claimed that what they lacked was fundamental. 'Give me liberty or give me death' - they were truly lacking liberty, and they fought for it. The cucks crying out "We have nothing to lose but our chains!", what are they usually fighting for? Free healthcare, free education, and free shit in general.

So, you'll pardon me for not taking them seriously; they have everything to lose, and little to gain, and those of us who see it find it endlessly amusing.

"	MrSOCKS wrote:
	An objective examination of Christianity would yield the same result.

Lol, nope. It absolutely would not; indeed, Christian ideology has steadily lead to the improvement of the human lot, and has been responsible for scientific advancement and the advancement of human rights. Granted, some have used it as an excuse for doing evil; but even at those times, other Christians have countered them much more soundly.

MrSOCKS wrote:

But see, people need PROOF. They need meaty examples in the real world that they can apprehend with their animal senses. The burnt hand teaches best. And until any policy is actually TRIED, there is room for doubt and willingness TO experiment. So hold up China and Russia and remind folks that they tried communism and how that work out? Or just point to Venezuela in real time. Ain't it workin' out great for them?

Fair enough.

"	MrSOCKS wrote:
	*You may not know those people directly or personally-- a blessing, that. But these people have been out and loud about themselves for over ten years. They're kind of hard to miss. And they elected a man to be POTUS who is just like them...woe to the Union.

I don't honestly think there are many people with the character traits of Donald Trump; such people would require a good deal of fame and money, and deal with business directly. Could you explain, then, what you mean when you say "they elected a man to be POTUS who is just like them"? Because from what I'm seeing, his negative personality traits are often actually a benefit to his goals.

TheAtomicDog

6 years, 5 months ago

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Where's this whitebox thing? I know how to copy-paste, but the whiteboxing thing is newto me. And PROTIP: if you can't keep track of your own talking points, well...
And to begin, PLEASE don't say "cuck". God in heaven. If I wanted to confront such infantile dreck, I'd go rampage on the /pol/s some more.
The gist of the whole "chains" quote is that as long as you are enchained, nothing else truly matters. What use is any amount of comfort and protection when the price is your liberty? Chains of gold or silk are still chains. And the Colonies were indeed chained by the caprices of London. They were willing to risk utter catastrophe and defeat to rid themselves of those chains, because they knew that chains are chains, and nothing else matters until you are free of them. You know, the socialists are not wrong when they bring up the several flaws and evils of capitalism. And those evils have been in the system since the beginning. But that does not mean we must go all the way over to socialism, to clense capitalism of its unjust filth.

*" It absolutely would not; indeed, Christian ideology has steadily lead to the improvement of the human lot..."
And yet more advancements in improving the human condition have occurred since the dawning of the Industrial Revolution, and via liberal-progressive policies (America), than in the preceding eighteen centuries of churchish domination. And indeed, every technical advancement has been derided by the church as "profane" or "Satanic", because they are advancements the church cannot claim as their own. I should also remind you that the basis of most all technique and scientific policy either predates Christianity (Classical Europe/antique civilizations), or got on/gets on quite well without it (Arabia/Islam, Hindustan, China). Human inspiration does not require the church. And still the church has much house-cleaning to do--esp. in America-- before they become truly as pious and "Bible believing" as they declare. Finally, the Christian god's a straight-up psycho. Insecure, deceitful, vain, vengeful, blood-thirsty, genocidal, absurdly destructive. But then, what Bronze Age god isn't?

*"I don't honestly think there are many people with the character traits of Donald Trump..."
And yet he remains wildly popular in all his blatant odiousness. Indeed, his character amuses million of American to no end. Online connies were boasting as soon as Trump declared that they were going to vote for him just to piss off the libs. They didn't care about anything else, and a good number of them still don't. All they want is to offend people to show they can. No depth of character; no maturity; no sense of responsibility or concern for the future. Just dicks being dicks because it amuses them. I will not respect such juvenile nonsense.

*"such people would require a good deal of fame and money, and deal with business directly."
Partially correct. Of all the super-rich movers out there, only Donnie seems so amazingly addicted to fame, publicity and attention. Most-all the others prefer to work behind the scenes: Soros, the Kochs, all them cats.

*"Because from what I'm seeing, his negative personality traits are often actually a benefit to his goals."
And what makes you think that his personal goals benefit the nation? he only got elected POTUS to prove to Obama that he could. Have you people done no research into this man at all? Have you any idea of what kind of liar, thief and general scumbag he has proven himself to be, since the 1970s? You guys elected a cartoon NYC huckster saleman, a full-blown sociopath, out of spite, and you will be held to account for this blunder.

Maulkin

6 years, 5 months ago

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Ah well, computer ate my response;

Anyway, since you've shown your true colors of being pro-Antifa and pro-BLM, and since you've called Republicans, conservative Christians, etc, in general 'Nazis' without anything to actually back it up - well, I think you've done more damage to your own cause than I ever could. I thank you for that; and now, since there's no more I can say that would sway others against your side and towards mine than that bit of insanity (and I certainly can't convince you, you're too far gone), I'm afraid I'll have to cut it off here.

Maulkin

6 years, 5 months ago

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MrSOCKS wrote:

"You're joking, right? Conservatives have ALWAYS been questioned and challenged; indeed, accusations of 'racism' and 'hitler' have been the norm."
*Yes. And they hate every moment of it. They are so convinced of their own righteousness, they take any challenge to their beliefs as a mortal personal insult. The easiest way to get a connie to bow up and hiss is to challenge their opinions. Just look at the behavior of Our Host, or any of the prominent connies out there. And let the connies try to defend their positions. It makes me feel somewhat nostalgic, tbh.

I have, and I have not found anything particularly odious. Can you cite anything specific?

MrSOCKS wrote:

"most think that what they want for America is best for everyone,"
And THAT'S the problem! When anyone thinks they know what's best for someone else, without ever asking input from that someone else as to what they might really want or need, you get the kind of disruptive policies connies rightly bash the libs for pursuing. And this touches on another issue with conservative America: they just 'think'. They never seem to get around to knowing anything, they just 'think'. Allowing opinions or beliefs to overrule demonstrative fact is the second biggest weakness in conservative doctrine.

Then let me make my meaning plainer; they think because they know. They see the workings of our country and other countries, and they know that it is both morally superior and practically superior to have a free market and free people, where the rights of the individual are valued above the goals of the state. You say we think we 'know what's best for someone else' - far from it! It is precisely because we do not know what's best for others that we wish to cut back on government as much as possible, give people as much control over their own lives without interference from government. Indeed, you'd be hard-pressed to point to any widely supported conservative ideology that puts more power into the hands of government to interfere into the lives of the individual; but that's almost all you'll find from modern liberals and leftists.

"	MrSOCKS wrote:
	"My dear, I have seen conservatives and I have seen people one might describe as racist." I have lived around conservatives now close to fifty years, including my own family. They are racist. Whites, blacks, latinos. if they're conservative, they also tend to be racist. I've even met conservative racist Americans who still hate the Irish!

At this point, having seen the only examples you can put forth - that is, the conservatives here speaking up - I have to say that your assessment is... well, frankly, quite off the mark. Even the so-called 'Nazis' I've met - the ones who want absolutely frightful policy - are still nothing compared to the depravity of the Nazis we fought in WW2. They operate primarily out of fear of what they claim is an ongoing 'white genocide', which I can sympathize with and can see has some merits; there are indeed powerful forces (the Democratic Party, for instance) which wish to replace white people, who traditionally vote more conservative, with demographics who vote more in-line with their ideals. And their solution for this tends is far less extreme than the Nazis wanted, and even more peaceful than modern communists. Even at the very worst, the 'far right' - though they have more in common on the right/left authoritarian/libertarian spectrum with communists and socialists than they do with conservatives - still tend to be more protective of their own group than hateful of others. I know several; I've talked with them, debated with them, and they most often see what they're fighting as a threat to themselves and their way of life, and only wish to do what they think is necessary to defeat that threat.

And, of course, these aren't conservatives; actual conservatives are far removed from these so-called 'far-right Nazis', and tend to avoid racial stuff entirely.

Maulkin

6 years, 5 months ago

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Edited 6 years, 5 months ago by Owner

(cont)

"	MrSOCKS wrote:
	And conservative America ARE the far right: racist, Mammonistic yet fanatical, not so much misogynistic but they REALLY hate women who dare talk back to men, generally xenophobic and generally convinced that the world owes them everything while they owe the world nothing.

*chuckles* My dear, I have seen conservatives and I have seen people one might describe as racist. However, these people tend not to be the same people. Indeed, the people you describe are not 'far right' at all, they actually tend to be socialists. National socialists, but socialists all the same - with the same attitude towards government's scope and rightful place in our economic and social lives. Indeed, communists and nat-soc's are quite similar in regards to how much power they think government ought to have over our lives; conservatives are almost on the very opposite end of the spectrum The only thing we conservatives and libertarians really have in common with nat-soc's is that we strongly detest SJWs, communists, globalists, etc, and how they're tearing our culture apart. Besides that, their ideologies are utterly different.

"	MrSOCKS wrote:
	American conservatives HATE being so constantly reminded that they're not the center of the world.

At this point I'm pretty sure you're projecting; the vast majority of the changes conservatives would make to the nation would involve *deregulation* and *getting government out of our lives and business*. Conservatives really just want to be left the fuck alone, whereas Leftists would use the law to force others to follow whatever super-special-snowflake idea is that day.

"	MrSOCKS wrote:
	And American connies would LOVE to be open fascists, to reign over everyone in terror and violence. They fantasize about it constantly, because that IS how they used to rule. Esp. in the South.

Wew lad - that's some hardcore projection, there. The people wanting to reign over everyone in terror and violence are the likes of Antifa and BLM; they're the ones who fantasize about it. Fuck, if you look at the various Antifa artists, you'll see just how often the fantasize about violently attacking/killing """Nazis""".

"	MrSOCKS wrote:
	Connies and commies both want the same thing: to have total control all to themselves. And they are to be equally despised.

Oh, I seee - clever! You're trying to associate communists with bog-standard American conservativism.

Sorry, no. No, that's patently ridiculous. You cannot compare the two; on the one hand we have a group that wants to live and let live and basically be free to live - the conservatives, in other words - and on the other hand we have a group that wants violent revolution and to control every aspect of everyone's lives - ie, the communists. And, by casting the same light on the both of them, you seek to make the 'reasonable center' be somewhere in between standard conservatives and communists.

Sorry dear; that's simply retarded. Everything you said there about conservatives was blatantly false - a lie, if intentionally so.

TheAtomicDog

6 years, 5 months ago

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"Indeed, the people you describe are not 'far right' at all, they actually tend to be socialists."
I had no idea that evangelical Christians, Southern Baptists, and registered Republicans were 'socialists'!

*The main reason that connies hate the SJWs is the main reason they hate Sharia law: they don't want the competition. Indeed, comparing both their general mentalities and public activism, you will find there is no difference between conservatives and the SJWs. It all comes down to "Don't do anything to offend me!", and they will viciously punish anyone who does.

*If anything, anywhere does not celebrate white conservative America, the conservative will resent it. The Olympics, Black Lives Matter, Obama's presidency, athletes taking the knee, gays and women and all not willing to be subservient to white Conservative America. That's what the Trad movement is all about: dragging America back to the bad old days when everyone and everything worked to serve white conservative men and nobody else. They want a world where women are subservient, niggers know their place and the fags are invisible if not dead. Both online and in real life, my experience with conservatives is, if you're not useful to them, you're worthless and better off dead.

*History proves that I do not project. And again, everyday, RL experience proves it as well. Either be obedient to a conservative or be subjected to threats of violence. Antifa and BLM are deliberate resistance to the abuses and injustices that so inform conservative policy. They have proven themselves unafraid of conservative bombast, and are not given to backing down. You are right to be scared of them. They ain't havin' your shit. And why should they? And beating up Nazis is a very righteous and American thing to do.

*Conservatives DO wish to be left alone... but still run everyone else's business. Just do what they say or else but, you know, don't go investigating THEIR doings. Nothing to see there. Nothing but nothingburgers. That's why you see things like GOPers doing everything they can to nullify corporate and official accountability, while inflicting their personal flavor of hardcore Christianity on everyone else. Or the GOPers in Congress spending years on end investigating Obama and Hillary, but then insisting there's nothing to see and that we should just move on, when GOPers or conservative fall under suspicion. Or little Donnie Comb-over up in the White House. Everyone he dislikes needs to be investigated and locked up, but don't you DARE even THINK about questioning him about anything...EVER!

*"and on the other hand we have a group that wants violent revolution and to control every aspect of everyone's lives"
And it is not white, conservative America that has been threatening, calling for, hoping for and praying for a second civil war for the past dozen years? Again, the single and universal reply to any defiance of conservative want is violence. Nuke anyone who threatens them abroad, declare civil war against any domestic resistance. Black people peacefully protesting? Quick! Send in domestic police forces more heavily equipped for combat than our troops in the middle east! Obama getting re-elected? Threaten fire and blood in the streets! Trump NOT getting elected or possibly impeached? Civil war! CIVIL WAR!
You cannot condemn the left when the right practices the very same policies, and has done so since time everlasting. I mean, you can, but you will get exposed for it.

Maulkin

6 years, 5 months ago

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Edited 6 years, 5 months ago by Owner

(Whups - something fucked up the formatting, hang on...)

Toasts

6 years, 5 months ago

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Someone got
O V E R W H E L M I N G L Y
T R I G G E R E D

TheAtomicDog

6 years, 5 months ago

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@ Toasts

No outrage here, merely the impulse to correct. Such things require more than a small handful of single-sentence statements, you see.

Toasts

6 years, 5 months ago

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They don't. The need of giving -unrequired- explanations over political fallacies showoffs a very basic bias.
Simple.

TheAtomicDog

6 years, 5 months ago

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@ Toasts

Do you mean "The need to give needless explanations of political fallacies shows a basic bias"?

Toasts

6 years, 5 months ago

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*did you
Yeah, and red herring over my grammar is a fallacy too

TheAtomicDog

6 years, 5 months ago

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@ Toasts

Just saying my position is a "fallacy" doesn't make it so. Proof or it didn't happen. And tossing out word salads doesn't help your position. Unless English is not your first language. That's totally understandable as Inkbunny is very trans-global.

JakeDaMaus

6 years, 5 months ago

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I swear to God, you and Roarey are like an old married couple X3

TheAtomicDog

6 years, 5 months ago

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@ JakeDaMaus

Mmm. There *is* a certain synergy to these kinds of relationships...
But then, I go round like this with my own dad as well, and he hates it just as much. And I sure as hell am not married to HIM!

JakeDaMaus

6 years, 5 months ago

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Risu

6 years, 5 months ago

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Edited 6 years, 5 months ago by Owner

The way I see it, maxims in general are a sign of deeply flawed logic. It simply means the only way someone knows how to justify a radical idea is to use pithy, archaic-sounding "wisdom" that "cannot be questioned".

rolandjackal

6 years, 5 months ago

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Dude, they're your chains. What sort of a dumbass gets caught up in their own chains?

snofox

6 years, 5 months ago

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Seems to me like new-age liberals have no idea what liberal even means, neither does the left, the right's views are dismissed or ridiculed simply because they're the right, REAL liberals are labeled fascists for wanting to have hard discussions, anti-fascists are more fascist than they realize, there's the alt-right, then there's the "alt-right," and reality and facts are being replaced with fantasy and delusion... Sound about right to you?

Sussurak

6 years, 5 months ago

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While I would never wish ill-will or harm on anybody, I do sometimes believe that some people would be better off if they got a little, "mild" cancer.  Something "easily" treatable and cured.  I use the quotation marks because I'm talking about relative conditions.  Testicular cancer isn't as bad as lung cancer, for example.

After facing cancer and seeing other people living with it in hospital, I've taken an attitude of "I have two arms, two legs and a pulse. It's a good day." no matter what sort of day I'm having.
People talk about the wealth gap, but forget to take into account the number of people living above the poverty line.  I don't earn much, but I have food, water, a roof over my head, internet access in the palm of my hand, entertainment devices and so forth.

I have so much more than chains to lose.  My family, my life.
(That's my two cents.  Also, about the cancer, I live in a country with a functioning health care system, so I realise that such an idea wouldn't work everywhere.)

lordofallqwop

6 years, 5 months ago

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Everything is transient but ones ability to determine and to develope.

MrDumbass

6 years, 5 months ago

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I just realized these guys sound like the fucking Sith. No, really.

"Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
"Through passion, I gain strength.
"Through strength, I gain power.
"Through power, I gain victory.
"Through victory, my chains are broken.
"The Force shall set me free."

hang me c:

Maulkin

6 years, 5 months ago

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@ MrDumbass

*sperges out in nerdy rage over the Sith being badmouthed like that*

fite me m8

MrDumbass

6 years, 5 months ago

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Fine, they're Sith wannabes. Happy? :P

Maulkin

6 years, 5 months ago

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@ MrDumbass

*reeeees somewhat more softly* =p

SerathDuo

6 years, 5 months ago

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Edited 6 years, 5 months ago by Owner

Zonntag

6 years, 5 months ago

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First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

=^.^=

Maulkin

6 years, 5 months ago

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@ Zonntag

Could you explain how that's relevant?

Fish

6 years, 5 months ago

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I came for the thumbnail, but stayed for the morons in comments XD

Maulkin

6 years, 5 months ago

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@ Fish

Who are the morons, exactly?

whiskeyfur

6 years, 5 months ago

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Just my two cents:
The main reason communism can not work in practice is because the theory completely ignores one facet of human behavior, and that is greed.

Every system, be it religious or secular, suffers from this. The idealistic don't understand that people are driven by their wants as well as by their needs, so even if they should have everything, it will not be enough. The more successful religions rely on this fact and hide those mechanisms. The whole 'tithe till it hurts' so you can 'guarantee your place in the afterlife' routine is one rather common one.

Governments do much the same thing. Under the guise of patriotism the rulers commit atrocities to fill their pockets, with the witless and the ignorant, the fooled as their tools.

Maulkin

6 years, 5 months ago

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@ whiskeyfur

It's not just that, though; communism requires evil to function. It must take the 'means of production' and nationalize it, which is theft. Even if it does this, what then? People will simply come up with other 'means of production', and develop based on that; these will eventually supersede the means of production that were originally stolen, and they'll end back at square one - where the 'means of production' are primarily in the hands of individual entities. The only solution, then, is to continuously steal the next means of production, and the next, and the next.

It's got the evil baked right in.

RoareyRaccoon

6 years, 5 months ago

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@ whiskeyfur

Communism doesn't ignore greed, it is motivated by it. Communism results, and must result, in a relatively small number of people presiding over the rest with an iron fist. Communism expects everyone to be selfless and machine-like, with no ambition or avenue for self-improvement for the benefit of those who run the system, it is infinitely more selfish than any other system. Advocates of communism are not people who care about the poor, the so-called marginalized, they're motivated by hatred of the rich. If they gave an actual fuck about people who have it bad they wouldn't defend a system that has destroyed and killed a few hundred million people within a single century, on the off-chance some other cunt, like themselves, could run it "properly". No, you do not, ever, get a person more selfish, more egotistical than that. For someone to believe that they not only know for certain what is best for society but that best thing is something that has always failed in the most horrendous ways possible, yet they could do a better job of it.... I don't think there is a higher form of conceit.

The biggest problem with communism is that it is pure, filtered, triple-distilled, Smirnoff evil. Not that it ignores the existence of greed.

Zonntag

6 years, 5 months ago

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