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HalcyonWinter
HalcyonWinter's Scraps (297)

The way I see things in relation to underage characters in erotic art and writing.

Halloween YCH Mockup
200529_how_i_see_things.txt
Keywords writing 1656, opinion 40, essay 29, editorial 12, non-fiction 4
This is about freedom to let your imagination be shared. To let whatever beauty you have conjured up in your mind out. Spread out on the canvas. It could cause a smile, it might cause disgust, it might cause excitement, it could cause lust, and it could cause anger. But that is what art is supposed to do. It's supposed to cause an emotional response. If the response is negative, so be it. That doesn't change whether that art should exist or not.

Maybe the beauty the artist has conjured up is evil, brutal, sad, depressing. The human brain conjures up gods and demons. Good and evil is invented by humans. You have to explore these things. Why would this image cause rage? Cause lust? What about yourself can you learn from your reaction to something?

No. Instead of the anger and rage against one's self and humanity in general it is deflected back to the artist. It's their fault you're upset at the image. Their fault they came up with this art. They must be at fault. Whatever evils or monstrosities that they've made come to life in their images must be their real desires. In fact, those things written or drawn are things they want to do. Things they want to inflict on others. They are dangerous. Wrong.

How incorrect. How absolutely bonkers is that thinking? If this were true, we better call the mind police. Just because someone has drawn something horrible doesn't mean they are the only ones that have these things floating around in their mind. People are able to inflict great pain, death, and evils against one another whether it's been drawn or written out or not. You really think there has been no murder, rape, violence before someone wrote it out or drew a picture of it?

People, please. Separate the artist from the art, the writer from the fiction. These are explorations. Explorations of the things that excite, disgust, delight, and anger us. They aren't meant to condemn the artist. These aren't confessions of the artist's desires in reality. But even if they are. Desires do nothing without action. Fantasy stays fantasy until acted upon. Have more faith in humanity that people can explore and experience things they should not and would not act upon against someone else in reality.

To me, it's a shallow way of thinking. Put Stephen King in prison for the rest of his life. Give George RR Martin the death penalty. Burn the books. In fact. Any artist that has created something evil or a story without a happy ending. As it means they are also an evil person.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Hal the Feraligatr
Fuzz Dragon
An editorial on my views on the whole thing to help illustrate my opinion and viewpoint on the matter of cubs/shota/lolis in art and stories. Maybe it could help you feel better about what you like and if you are on the fence to perhaps understand that art and written word should be total freedom.

Keywords
writing 1,656, opinion 40, essay 29, editorial 12, non-fiction 4
Details
Type: Writing - Document
Published: 3 years, 11 months ago
Rating: General

MD5 Hash for Page 1... Show Find Identical Posts [?]
Stats
1,989 views
90 favorites
48 comments

BBCode Tags Show [?]
 
Bloodhawk
3 years, 11 months ago
Karen: I would like to speak to the manager of art please, thank you lol
PepperOtter
3 years, 11 months ago
Roflcopter :3
Thaddeus
3 years, 11 months ago
Lol.  
I consider myself lucky that I have yet to attract such people who would shame me for writing the things I do.
MystBunny
3 years, 11 months ago
They prefer not to go after the ones who don't care what they think, it seems.
Thaddeus
3 years, 11 months ago
How do you think they determine who cares and who doesn't, do you think?
MystBunny
3 years, 11 months ago
Maybe it's people trying harder to hide it? Or, maybe I'm wrong and it's just that people who primarily do cub stuff and not much else don't get noticed as much. But recently, someone had been going after my watchers, and seems to have stopped when I found out about it.
Thaddeus
3 years, 11 months ago
Going after your watchers specifically?  Sounds more like a vendetta than anything else.

I see you write too.  When I have some extra time, I'll have to read something in your gallery.  If you're ever in need of a little support in your writing, interested in improving your craft, or just want to hang out with other furry writers, look to my profile for a link to my furry writers discord.
MystBunny
3 years, 11 months ago
I certainly don't mind some tips, but I don't have discord. Also I'm afraid recent events have left me lacking in motivation to write anything at all, as much as I've tried to put something out.

As for the troll, I'm not sure whether it was only MY watchers he was going after, but he would PM them calling them pedos, make journals tagging them and calling them pedos and claiming they tried to show him real child porn, and he had about three accounts that I was able to see.

edit: also be aware my stories primarily contain rape.
Thaddeus
3 years, 11 months ago
I've written a few rape stories, I'm not opposed to it in fiction if it's done well.

If you ever get discord, then feel free to stop by.  Otherwise, you can poke me in PMs if you have questions about some aspect of writing.  I'm always happy to help.
AndyBear
3 years, 11 months ago
This made me feel good about being a cub again |3
lionkinguard
3 years, 11 months ago
I don't know if this came about because of my journal, but the truth is that I LOVED this text of yours.
You are absolutely right and I think everyone should read this.
We're not bad people for creating something. Yes. What we do makes us feel good, but these are fictions, fantasies.
I also loved what you wrote at the end. Anyone who thinks that way is also condemning great filmmakers and famous writers, whose stories can involve deaths of heroes, rapings or incestuous relationships.
Unfortunately, there are people who cannot differentiate reality from fiction. If so, what do these people do on these sites? And why do they insult artists for creating something that some don't like?
I will continue to love the fanarts I see, the fanfics I read and even the ones I write. I know this is all fictional and I'm not going to do certain things in real life that I see here. Even because I know these things are wrong and some even disgust me (in real life).
You should publish this text on all the sites you can, because it is a true message and I think it can open the mind of some people.
Thank you very much for this sharing.
Unistar
3 years, 11 months ago
Well said!
namelesswolf
3 years, 11 months ago
As a fellow writer of cub erotica, I have often felt tremendously ashamed about some of the things I've written.  When I have a fantasy, even though it will always stay a fantasy, it's still a desire that I have.  It's still something I want, even though my rational mind knows it will never be real, and from that want arises the shame.

I appreciate this perspective.
lionkinguard
3 years, 11 months ago
We all feel that shame sometimes. But that's something we can't control. The only thing we can control is what we do, especially in the real world. Like I said, I love some thing on the net that I hate in the real world. We just need to separate things.
HalcyonWinter
3 years, 11 months ago
I believe everyone has secret thoughts and desires they wouldn't actually act upon. Rational people think up murdering a coworker that they don't like or fantasizing running over a cop with their car. Of course these people would never do that because the world would be really really bad if everyone did. And I think the normal every-day person is rational enough to put those thoughts aside. We may have a skewed perspective, thanks to the news media, of what people are capable of - and how little fantasies are acted upon
lionkinguard
3 years, 11 months ago
Once again you're right.
Tynach
3 years, 11 months ago
The creation of fiction is precious... Don't ever hate yourself for that. Even if it depicts the truly horrifying and despicable, it is a marvel that it could even be created.

The creation of something should never be something one feels shame for.
MystBunny
3 years, 11 months ago
No kink is inherently evil. A kink is neutral. I also believe that kinks are an extension of sexual orientation. Gay people like guys, but some like em hairy, some like em not, some like em skinny, some like em feminine, some like em masculine, some like em fat, some like em on top, some like em on bottom, some like oral, some like anal, etc. Sexual preference is not a simple thing, and it's not a choice. It's an automatic response from your mind, body, and a release of endorphins. If you indulge your kinks without hurting anyone, you have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. It would be far worse to bottle them up when they come out to play.
Feryl
3 years, 11 months ago
Very well put. If you can't separate the fantasy from the creator, there's a ton of people who belong in prison for writing about murder, incest & pedophilia. And that started way back in Genesis.
BlackBun
3 years, 11 months ago
Beautiful loved this. I honestly never understood why people are so bothered by someone else's fantasy. It none of your business what they write or draw and if you don’t like it  don’t look. The world already has enough problems without people feeling ashamed of their creativity.
RileySockfoxy
3 years, 11 months ago
I agree. This happens too often. And what stems from this? We see artists ruined all the time based on what they create. That’s abhorrent.

Judge the art itself, not the artist. Well said, Halcyon.
Seikilos
3 years, 11 months ago
Very well said.
DreamAndNightmare
3 years, 11 months ago
This hits close to home as I was recently called out for drawing a pornographic pride month related picture. It was nothing I hadn't done before and certainly not unusual from my other works, yet it must have rubbed a few people the wrong way because it lead to a "vote bombing" on e621, with the kind of commentary you could expect.
It baffled me because I had not expected that people would freak out over this - especially considering it wasn't really different from the hundreds of other pictures of similar nature.
However, I will not change my ways to please a faceless crowd that demands I draw things the way they like.

I just find the whole shame & cancel culture of it all scary. To pile on and bombard an artist with negativity to get them to change or disappear, to harass them on social media, dox them or worse, is nothing short of pathetic. To not have one shred of empathy left for another human being solely because of the fact that said person draws fictional animal characters in a way that some might find objectionable, is almost sociopathic.

I worry about that sometimes. Worry about a smear campaign that self righteous people start, because they thing it's "the right thing to do", meanwhile any worthwhile action that one could do - like for example donate to charities that help victims of abuse - is completely disregarded. No, it's more important for their own self-image to lash out against another person.

I miss the times when the furry fandom let each of its members have their own unique interests & fetishes. There were cub related magazines like Softpaw magazine - unthinkable in this day and age where probably every participant would be hunted down and accused of crimes they didn't comment, only because it would show cub art.

I apologize for rambling, but this is something I really worry about. Please do not be discouraged however. Draw what you want, no matter what it is. A community that is based around fictional characters should learn to better differentiate reality and fantasy, because otherwise, we can just start gatekeeping everything until the fandom falls apart.
HalcyonWinter
3 years, 11 months ago
You're right and I totally agree. The cancel-culture is something relatively new and I believe to be a passing fad. It's cool right now to call-out people you deem morally below you. Birthplace of this being Tumblr and Twitter. I'm looking for a new renaissance of freedom of expression and creativity, hopefully sooner than later. and get away from the morality and mind policing.
alistair
3 years, 11 months ago
" I just find the whole shame & cancel culture of it all scary. To pile on and bombard an artist with negativity to get them to change or disappear, to harass them on social media, dox them or worse, is nothing short of pathetic.


When one is cast out and marginalized, silenced, persecuted, but then stands and tells society to go fuck itself, and lives life on one's own terms and creates the art one likes...  when we come to that end, we have become Punk.

We all need to realize the world always changes, and where we stood yesterday is not where we stand today.  We could afford to be nice, to not bare our claws in defense, but now that behavior is mere weakness in the face of those who would seek to destroy us out of their own warped sense of righteousness.

It's no different than the religious moralists of half a century ago and more attempting to silence the culture, the music, art, and film they found abhorrent.  They had their successes, yes.  But, Today, are they more remembered than the very things they attempted to destroy?

The fools of today are rapidly creating a counter-culture they cannot understand.  They are creating stronger people unwilling to bend to their tyrannical bullshit, and they will ultimately lose when the wheel turns.  Take heart, stay on your feet, and remember those in the past who also suffered for their expression and know that you are not alone, not in this life or in history.
MarcusKoopa
3 years, 11 months ago
The only problem is that, inevitably, the new counter culture will swing away FAR too hard then, as they grow up, begin banning everything they don't like as well. There is no point where someone doesn't try to shit on everyone's fun.
HalcyonWinter
3 years, 11 months ago
it swings back and forth even throughout American history. early 20th century then leading to 20s prohibition. fundamentalist 50s followed by 60s hippies, etc. we just seem to be swinging back into a moral meltdown at the moment XD
alistair
3 years, 11 months ago
" MarcusKoopa wrote:
The only problem is that, inevitably, the new counter culture will swing away FAR too hard then, as they grow up, begin banning everything they don't like as well. There is no point where someone doesn't try to shit on everyone's fun.


True.  That's what I mean when I say they don't understand what they're creating.  One side or another doesn't matter, because we're all humans, and humans will do as humans do.

I figure the sooner people stand and learn to hold their ground, the less harsh the eventual swing will become.  We can't stop it, but maybe we can temper it or guide it, and with luck dampen the oscillation somewhat.  If there is no reason and intelligence forming a counter-push, the persecuted people will default to their ape-brain reactions, and Really Bad Things will result.
MarcusKoopa
3 years, 11 months ago
The ape is far more powerful than the human in the average brain. You can't temper or stop the pendulum, you can only enjoy the points where it's in the middle.
alistair
3 years, 11 months ago
" MarcusKoopa wrote:
The ape is far more powerful than the human in the average brain. You can't temper or stop the pendulum, you can only enjoy the points where it's in the middle.


Disagree, but then I am not a fatalist.  The game has different phases, each requiring different strategy and tactics.  We can't reach everyone, but every individual reached is a positive gain.  The education systems in the West have failed, maybe almost catastrophically.  It's up to each of us capable of doing so to at least try to pick up the slack and stave off destruction.
SomeStickyGoo
3 years, 11 months ago
Good shit!
LoanShark
3 years, 11 months ago
Yes I agree. The cub pictures are just drawings. They are not real. So just leave it.
MystBunny
3 years, 11 months ago
Art inspiring different emotions, sure, but I say porn is for fun. If you're getting angry while looking at porn, you're doing it wrong. I mean unless you get off on being angry, then you're doing it very right  I guess >.>

And you know, even though the whole subject was just made up as a distraction, there was one person who did a mass shooting, and people blamed violent video games for what he did.. except the game he played more than any other game was Dance Dance Revolution. I've also heard people talk about studies that showed that people who played video games were more prone to aggression.. except in the study many people love to cite, "aggression" included things like putting hot sauce on someone's sandwich. The idea that certain pornographic material would cause evil behavior is baseless.

I've heard that the terrorists from 9-11 trained themselves with Flight Simulator. I'm not sure if that's true or not, but if it were, should that game be taken down? Are the devs of Flight Simulator responsible for the attack?
alistair
3 years, 11 months ago
One can appreciate depictions of war without desiring war.
One can appreciate depictions of murder without desiring murder.
One can appreciate depictions of furry sex without desiring sex with an animal.
One can appreciate depictions of child sexuality without desiring sex with a child.

One can appreciate a depiction of a thing without desiring the thing.

Some, many, people understand this, yet stop believing it the moment their unexamined moral and ethical axioms are crossed.  The Thing is bad, magically bad, and imbues all things around it with Bad Magic.

Interestingly, it is the behavior of the Bad Magic Believers that is actually expressing the Bad Magic the Believers fear.  Don't Invoke the Bad Thing, or More-Bad-Things Will Happen!  The More-Bad-Things, of course, being the very aggression of those prophesying them.  For instance, it is in fact mortally dangerous to draw depictions of Muhammed: the Believers will happily act as the hand of Allah and kill you for it, and then claim it is Allah's Will doing so.

Humans are fascinating creatures.
HalcyonWinter
3 years, 11 months ago
you're right! a very good way to put it
MarcusKoopa
3 years, 11 months ago
I think you're over-thinking it. It's not about really BELIEVING that the thing is bad. It's about yelling loudly so other people can all come and see how great you are for screaming about the bad thing.
alistair
3 years, 11 months ago
" MarcusKoopa wrote:
I think you're over-thinking it. It's not about really BELIEVING that the thing is bad. It's about yelling loudly so other people can all come and see how great you are for screaming about the bad thing.


Same difference, and I doubt the people yelling would explain themselves that way.  It's tribal religious behavior with social monkey-brain game bonus points, or in standard terms, Virtue Signalling.  Same territory, different map.
VeilUnlifted
3 years, 11 months ago
Hear Hear!

Well worded, and very true. People who cannot differentiate fact from fiction should not be taken seriously, given they literally cannot tell the difference between fake and real, how and why should we accept their declarations? XD
Wolfblade
3 years, 11 months ago
Well said.

I wish people could understand that the concept and fatal error of mind-policing also applies to far more than just art.
Mvindo
3 years, 10 months ago
Seconded. If they try and police your mind then you use their own methods to police theirs. :-)
ChadBull
3 years, 11 months ago
What a wonderful take on a complex and sensitive topic. In a perfect world we would be defined by our actions and our impact on others, rather than the thoughts that run through our head.

Great, great piece. Thank you.
Tynach
3 years, 11 months ago
I agree almost completely, but there is one point I feel I should comment on.

Good and evil are not necessarily inventions of humanity, though we have invented many imperfect forms of them in our attempts to understand and model them. Many of these imperfect and incomplete models have common themes, however, and many of these commonalities extend beyond human behavior.

Creation, protection; destruction, prohibition. These are what I think the most common traits are; both for good, and for evil. When as many things as possible flourish, that is considered good. And when as many things as possible are obstructed, that is considered bad.

And while it is true that creation of some things can cause destruction of many more things, that is what we should be using to determine what to prohibit. Not everything can be or should be created or protected, and many things should be destroyed or prohibited. But the destruction or prohibition of something should be a last resort, when one can prove that the gain is greater than the loss.

Some would argue that we don't know enough to say for sure how much is gained from cub/loli/shota porn. They see its obvious connection to things that are much easier to argue for the prohibition of - and indeed, those things have tangible and very real effects that cause them to do far more evil than any potential good.

But it's important to hold onto why. Those truly evil and despicable acts are prohibited for good reason, but just as we don't know enough to say for sure how much good comes from fictional depictions, we also don't know enough to say for sure how much evil comes of them. And if we are to aim for maximal good, then destruction and prohibition must be a last resort only.

Art, by its very nature, is the creation of something. Even if it depicts something that many people loathe and hate for good reason, it is art. It is a creation, and for that reason, it is precious - and worthy of protection and creation, unless proven otherwise.

Beyond that, I have seen this issue from many sides, by talking to people from all angles this could be looked at from. From survivors of child exploitation feeling horrified from their own thoughts of repeating the abuse, hating themselves, even committing suicide... To self-declared sociopaths rationalizing and weighing their decisions and options, deciding it best not to act on urges, but having them nonetheless.

Yeah, I only know them because I roleplay as a kid and let them type descriptions of what they'd do to the fictional kid we pretend I am. But I am almost absolutely certain that the destruction and prohibition of this type of content, will do a lot more evil than good.

The stigmatization has bred contempt for the victims, prevented therapy from reaching those who need it most, and caused far too many people to bottle up and repress aspects of themselves that slowly build and eat them from the inside out, tearing them apart.

This needs to end. This affects too many lives.. And I've seen this content become prohibited from too many places, deleted and destroyed from many more, all in the name of.. Hate. Pure, evil, hatred towards people. Some of those people are truly evil; but even among those, they probably need the most help out of anyone. And many people who are hated for creating this type of content are some of the kindest, gentlest, most wonderful people I've ever met in this fandom.

I just don't know what to do other than keep trying to get people to understand.

... And I have typed way more than I thought I would, and it's very late... I'm sorry for the rambly mess I'm sure this is; I've not really done any editing or revision except maybe to reorganize a sentence while I type it.
horserov
3 years, 11 months ago
Hey dude, thanks for sharing your thoughts! That's some hot topic and I gotta admit it hits the spot for me as well, being so relatable. I agree with you completely. Don't let those haters get to your head, keep on drawing what you want and be proud of it!
SACREDWrites
3 years, 11 months ago
You know, I always fear the day when InkBunny is forced to shut down and new "laws" to forbid pornographic depictions of all underage creatures are forced upon everyone.

This massive censorship is caused because people fear change. How long has pedophilia been hated among society? Before even freaking "Christ" incarnated and cursed everyone with his brainwashing beliefs (my belief tho).

And because humans as a method of survival, much like other creatures, respond to things they don't understand with fear and hate, have forbidden any sort of action or depiction similar to both child sex and other forms of sex that are related.

At this point, humanity should at least be smart enough to separate art from the artist, even though my belief is that art is the gateway to an individual's heart. That's the first thing, but what really should be happening is that society should stop generalizing by groups. This happens to the LGBT+ community, this happens to the colored community, and this also happens to the pedophiliac community.

Not everyone from each community will try to harm others, yet the media makes it seem like that is what they do. And sadly, although people of color and of different sexual identities and religious beliefs are managing to break through and show the world that they are not bad, and gained respect, despite the struggles. Pedophiles, however, haven't, because it is a rare occasion for an adult to be attracted to an underage individual, and because laws and humanity have taught that minors have no say in everything, this is where the abuse comes from.

I may be part of this group and have interacted with others who share similar attractions (although it is not exclusive, I write mostly about what I like and cubs aren't the only thing I write about), I know very fucking well that a minor has as much as a say in their life as an adult. Just because they have different priorities and a different point of view doesn't mean they're inferior and should just obey orders. This is what creates the false sense of obectivity that right or wrong are given, apart from other factors like laws and upbringing.

And I've known other people who share similar interests but haven't even done anything, either out of fear, or another reason. So then we go back to the art stage, why should we generalize that all people that make cub porn are inherently evil and are bound to harm another child? Nobody involved in such ideals that underaged individuals should be able to consent to sex (hence what cub porn depicts on one side) should deserve the extreme hate that I witnessed from certain groups of people, to the point that the group they hate are given death threats.

Most of my art depicts the reality I wish existed, at least until I start taking commissions, and even with comissions, much like the art I view, I have my own limits, and if I see InkBunny taken down by these political correctors that run around the web, I will have lost any sort of artistic medium that will allow me to express my own beliefs in a more powerful fashion than if I were to politically debate them, and I will have lost a wonderful art site that at least gave me a chance to develop my skills and a modest viewer base.
HalcyonWinter
3 years, 11 months ago
I would just be careful with your wording. You seem to be blurring the lines a bit. Yes, maybe in a utopian society full of sexual freedom things would be different. You are free to have your beliefs but I stay on the side of keep these fantasies fantasy. And to make it clear my belief is: Do not even think about chasing the "real thing".
Mvindo
3 years, 11 months ago
All I have to say is, just you draw whatever you want. And if anybody doesn't like it they can fuck themselves with broken glass. You don't owe them shit. :-)
Friar
3 years, 10 months ago
I do a lot of this kind of art as a service to those with challenging sexual inclinations to safely mediate their urges without acting on them. This is a technique that a lot of licensed psychologists approve of, and I'm happy to provide a safe space for all sorts of fantasies and ideas to be safely explored.
ZwolfJareAlt306
3 years, 10 months ago
+1
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